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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-31-2013, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
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Question for PSIG

On your 427w build, did you have any problems with crank/cam interference? I have a late model 351w roller block, 4.17 crank and lightweight 6.125" Scat cap bolt rods. I know I will have to clearance the block, stud girdle and oil pump housing. Do I need to be cautious about the cam profile I select? I plan to use a full size Ford style roller cam with factory style hyd. lifters.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-31-2013, 03:55 PM
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Re: Question for PSIG

I have had no issues, and don't expect you will either. It's actually your rods that will be the deciding factor, and massaging the shoulder is easy if clearance is less then .050" at any point. Unlikely you'll need to, but I haven't used the SCAT rods either. Most capscrew rods should have no issues like a few bolted rods do.

BTW - if you haven't machined the block yet, hold-off until you're done clearancing everything. I do my clearancing all at once on the raw block and parts. I use some good used crank and rod bearings and rod centering springs to align everything for clearance before boring for pistons, new cam bearings, etc. No reason to clean and contaminate twice or garbage-up bearings. Much faster, easier and simpler.

David

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Question for PSIG

Thanks, David. Yes, I do plan to do the clearancing before I take the block to the machine shop. In your experience, have you found it necessary to line hone the mains in the late model, low mileage 351w blocks often or are them usually good? If needed I will do that, but it's an extra $200.

By the way, what cam are you running?
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-02-2014, 09:02 AM
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Re: Question for PSIG

Most blocks do not need it, but I always check as part of the blueprinting process. It's not an opinion - you need it or you don't. You can either measure/straightedge it, or do a quick test by spinning with the caps loose, and again with caps tight. If torque to turn climbs noticeably, it probably needs line honing if the crank checks straight (which you are checking for straight and proper indexing, right? ). One way to do a quick check on both for straightness is to assemble dry with lampblack on the bearings, where a twisted block shows as spot contact after rotating, and a bent crank will show as full circle edge edge contact. Lots of simple ways to check easily without having to trust the machine shop or guess.

The 427 I have in the convertible now is just a mild power cruiser, as I'm not modifying the flimsy chassis for high-power. So, it's a torque/highway cam with about .540 lift, 226/234 at .050, 111 LSA and 107 ICL. It works well with pump gas and 10.6:1 static compression, at 205 psi cranking psi ( OK - ragged edge) and has a mild sound at ~750 idle. Sort-of a hot factory BB build just for cruising.

I might change to a similar roller with maybe 5 more intake duration all on the opening side, and maybe a degree more on the closing to keep dynamic compression where it is. I like the cam that's in it, and it's about as close to the edge as I can get, but the ramps are really aggressive and it's noisy. I'll lose a little valve speed by going roller, but it's a cruiser - not a racer.

David

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-03-2014, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Question for PSIG

I will take the block in for machining and the rotating assembly for balancing at the same time and let them check for main baring alignment. I'm a good assembler but not a machinist. I don't have that many measuring tools, just veneer calipers, dial indicator, and some straight edges. They can check out the crank too, which is an RPM forged unit with internal balance.

As far as cam, I do want a lopy, rough idle for show purposes. This is not a daily driver but a show car. I have done substantial undercarriage and engine bay reinforcing to take the low end hit, so cam will be chosen for hard acceleration over top end. Got suggestions from Lunati, Comp Cams and Howard's but my go custom order from Cam Research or Ford Stokers instead. Close ratio Top Loader and built 9" with aftermarket 31 spline axles fill out the rest of the power train. It will handle what ever I chose to throw at it.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-03-2014, 12:25 PM
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Re: Question for PSIG

Then go nuts! Like someone here said - cool is when it sounds like the intro to Hot For Teacher.

David

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-04-2014, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Question for PSIG

Roger that!
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 11:18 AM
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Re: Question for PSIG

PSIG do you happen to have a build thread for your 427? I'd like to look into copying it if it runs that well.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 12:27 PM
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Re: Question for PSIG

No, I don't, as it is one engine. But, I often refer to it as it's one that goes the 'other way' as more of a powerful but pleasant build for a specific purpose. The engine I'm talking about was built directly towards requirements, while leaving ego and assumptions out. It's not for everybody in that sense, as most want "500 to 600 hp, nasty sound and 40 mpg". It is none of those, but does what it was built for - power cruising. Good mileage in a moderate-weight car with 3.xx gears, mild lumpy sound, inexpensive, and power at every rpm that sets your eyeballs back by just thinking it.

You could copy this particular build if your goals are the same, but one tailored to your requirements may mean a few changes to suit your specifics. In a general sense, no two builds are the same, as no two applications are identical. Why don't we design one specifically for your requirements? Sit down and list info about the car and what you expect from it. Leave out any HP or TQ numbers - just what you will ask of it. Tell it like a story if you like. If you have a build budget, list that firm number also.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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Re: Question for PSIG

Ok I hate to hijack this thread, there's a good chance I'm window shopping here, so please don't put a ton of effort into this one. But it is income tax time...

Daily driven 65 mustang that currently has a 302 w chinese alu heads, mild cam, long tubes, no name air gap intake, 600cfm summit carb. Sounds like some junk, but I was pretty careful putting it together, on paper it has good quench, good dynamic comp, and it ended up making 20mpg on highway and 13-15 in town.

Being in Texas we take a lot of highway trips,I run 3.0 gears & stock t-5 and it just doesn't have the torque that I want...it's just not that fun when I'm in town running light to light unless it's really wound up.

Ok, that sounds like I want to have my cake and eat it too right? Well yeah, and I'm not going to deny that, but then you come along with a heavier car, more torque, way more hp, decent mileage, and not terribly expensive, so I'm interested for sure. On top of that, its windsor based which makes life a lot easier in an early mustang than most other swaps.

So, budget has really got to be less than 5k, hopefully closer to 3k, considering I'll need to get a different trans (or at least have some cash ready for one). I figure that I have a few options, get a 351 short block, some headers, dizzy, and intake and run the rest of what I have now, it'll be cheap, but is it worth the cash and effort for 50ci? Get a fordstroker kit, keep an eye out for used heads, and get the rest of the stuff. piecemeal in the meantime. Or, figure out what you're running on that shortblock, and copyright infringe the rest of it, heads and all. I just want to know what I'm looking at, what I need to be craigslisting, and what I need to be saving for.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 01:23 PM
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Re: Question for PSIG

Several ways to go here, and a few for consideration. Use what you have and stroke it, saving cost on the block, headers, intake, oil pan, etc. of a 351-base engine. Probably a noticeable gain with pro-porting or new heads, and a cam of course. The other up-side is the easy fit and maintenance over the larger 351 bulk. If you refrain from building a race engine for the street and build for street performance, added expenses to handle the power and apply it should be reasonably low - but don't forget to add them in.

Option 2 - build the 351/351, but as you say, it's equivalent money and not a lot of anticipation for the CI increase. Basically, a 347 that's larger and heavier, with few substantial features to make it stand out. On the other hand, doing a stock refresh on the engine out of your neighbor's van for chump change would get you on the road with 347 power, most of the parts for a stroker swap, and the option to later upgrade to a stroker version. A viable option, but I caution about doing things in steps that either end-up costing more than any other option, or never get there.

Option 3 - 351 stroker. A worthwhile gain in cubes and power, at the highest cost. Using only the dress and carb (?) beyond the long block, everything else is new. The lowest cost will be designing and building with individual parts rather than a kit in most cases. While less expensive, takes time and effort to design, patience to make deals for what you want or need, and blueprinting is an absolute requirement rather than a good idea. While this is certainly an option, is going all-out for brute force over a 347 your secret desire? While I'd generally say "Go for it!", it's the most expensive, and does not include expenses for other mods you may need to either handle the power reliably, or make actual use of it.

Option 4 - Power adder. For less money, use what you have and add power with nitrous or boost. All the mileage and street manners you enjoy now, and more power than a big block. The option is one of the best for many reasons, and one of my personal top options, but relies on your willingness or desire to embrace newer technology. Well, it's far from new, so let's say "other" technology. Some folks like old tech and form over function, and that's fine. It's your car and your call. The added mods to handle the greatly increased power apply here as well.

So, you now have to make the first decision - what general direction to go, based on your personal desires. Max horsepower? Minimum cost? Quickest street car? Best of all worlds? A certain appearance or bragging rights? No judgment here, it's only yours to judge.

David

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 07:00 PM
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Re: Question for PSIG

Quote:
So, you now have to make the first decision - what general direction to go, based on your personal desires. Max horsepower? Minimum cost? Quickest street car? Best of all worlds? A certain appearance or bragging rights? No judgment here, it's only yours to judge.


Well, I'm really open to any of those. Here are my considerations in order of importance.

I'd say budget is the biggest factor. Hate that it is, but if it wasn't, I'd just order up a crate motor and have someone put it in. That being said, this is hot rodding and it isn't free, I'll spend a little cash and a lot of time when I want something.

Looks/nostalgia are pretty important. It is a daily driver (usually my only car), so there's some compromise, but I do like the novelty of a carb'd pushrod v8 still on the road, especially considering I work at a Japanese car dealership. Nothing against the blower there, I think a black blower & plumbing pumping into a gold "air cleaner" would be a novel & different idea. That paxton kit goes for $2500, it's in the ballpark.



Really though, I'd have to say I'd lean towards the 347, or the 351 stroker. My initial thoughts on both:

347 - I can get a roller block, better heads, stroker kit, and have it ready to roll, I know it will fit, it's the simplest and likely the cheapest route. Can I safely say $1000 for a block with machining and a wisely chosen camshaft, $1000 for rotating assy, and $1500 for heads? Keep my heads for a while maybe...they have big valves, a little massaging, they weren't complete junk by any means. I could be rolling for around $2000. That would make a great insurance policy on my current motor.

351 based stroker - Well, more cubes duh. I can get a roller complete for $500 to my door, and start piece mealing it from there. Powerhouse 408 kit? More expensive kit? Piece it together? I'm not really afraid of that, I live in DFW, it's not too hard to find old parts, and the almighty ebay helps too. BUT, I imagine it'd be smart to pick up a tremec TKO or the like, and still could I even put that power down on a public road in a car this light without serious mods? One considerable hurdle with this one is downtime...yes in theory, I can have it ready to go, and the headers will work and it'll drop in after work but when has that ever happened? The cheapest kit I can find but forged is $1000. Cam and intake lets say $500. Machine work, I'll low ball it at $1000. Pan, headers, dizzy, incidentals another $1000. So a pretty mushy figure of $3500. Now, I'm sure you guys can shoot off some more accurate figures, feel free. And David, I still don't really know what your build consisted of, so I'm not factoring that out. I learn as I go, and I don't have any hands on experience with piecing together strokers.

It seems like I'm figuring out why the 347 is so popular. But hey, I just bought this 68 Fairlane..........

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