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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

Simple question; is there a stroker crank that will fit in a given year model of 351W block without major grinding or mods? I saw a 2 bolt main hydraulic roller 351W block for sale on Ebay today and was thinking about making an offer for it if I could take it out to the 400CI range with a stroker rotating assembly. I'm not really concerned with durability so much because the car I will put this in will be a show car. I just want it to be loud and obnoxious when I start it up. I do plan to take the comp ratio out to a 11:1 or slightly higher so it has some pop with a fairly radical hydraulic roller cam profile to make it interesting........
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 12:00 AM
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

I have a few thoughts that may save you time and money either way. First, a stroker will not make a show engine any more impressive in sound, and you can't see it. Run your high compression and a nasty cam for sound, and racing or AvGas for the smell, and go impress folks with your stock stroke. Nobody will know any different and it doesn't have to make tons of power, right?

Second, if you still want to go stroker, clearance grinding on longer strokes is one of the easiest parts of building a 351W based stroker. 30 minutes usually does it. 15 minutes the second time. I developed a method to do the crank and rod clearancing years ago that allows you to do the dirty work before you send the block for machining. Yep, that means with no pistons in the engine. Saves a good bit of time, and I'll find a link to my write-up for you if you go that way.

I say this because most 3.85" (393) and shorter-stroke cranks and rods do not need clearancing, but there is no guarantee of that. Different makes and versions of cranks with various rods can clearance much differently. Even the variations from block-to-block can change things, so you must always check clearances and grind as-necessary. In any case, there is no cause to fear the grinding part, and just go to the stroke you want in the first place. Hope that helps.

David

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 03:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

PSIG I had thought about just building a stock stroke 351 with just a cleanup over bore, but just knowing those extra cubes are there makes it even cooler and the more stroke I run the more compression I should make with single relief flat top pistons, giving that hard hitting sound I am looking for with out using domed pistons. I figure its just less clearance issues I will have to deal with and the cost for the flat tops should be less as well. THANKS for the info!
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 07:07 AM
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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Originally Posted by Showdown1966 View Post
Simple question; is there a stroker crank that will fit in a given year model of 351W block without major grinding or mods? I saw a 2 bolt main hydraulic roller 351W block for sale on Ebay today and was thinking about making an offer for it if I could take it out to the 400CI range with a stroker rotating assembly. I'm not really concerned with durability so much because the car I will put this in will be a show car. I just want it to be loud and obnoxious when I start it up. I do plan to take the comp ratio out to a 11:1 or slightly higher so it has some pop with a fairly radical hydraulic roller cam profile to make it interesting........
Why do you need 11:1 in a show car if the rest of the motor doesn't back it up? You don't even need that radical of a cam - just get one that gives you the desired (respectable) lope, and be done with it. After that dump the exuast out the sides without mufflers, and it will be plenty loud/obnoxious.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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Why do you need 11:1 in a show car if the rest of the motor doesn't back it up? You don't even need that radical of a cam - just get one that gives you the desired (respectable) lope, and be done with it. After that dump the exuast out the sides without mufflers, and it will be plenty loud/obnoxious.
I'm looking for the true race car sound I guess you could say and I absolutely hate the sound of a mushy 8:1 or 9:1 motor. I also found something through talking with the folks @ Keith Craft Performance Engines via email that would allow me to strengthen the bottom end some what, something that I feel was probably developed as an answer for the lack of stock 4 bolt main blocks in the Windsor family and that is this, I don't think it will be a strong as a 4 bolt bottom end but it should be a lot stronger than stock:
Canton Racing Products 21-062 Canton Racing Main Cap Supports - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS
They make these for the 351 and 302 2 bolt main blocks.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 11:19 AM
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showdown1966 View Post
I also found something through talking with the folks @ Keith Craft Performance Engines via email that would allow me to strengthen the bottom end some what, something that I feel was probably developed as an answer for the lack of stock 4 bolt main blocks in the Windsor family and that is this, I don't think it will be a strong as a 4 bolt bottom end but it should be a lot stronger than stock:
Canton Racing Products 21-062 Canton Racing Main Cap Supports - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS
They make these for the 351 and 302 2 bolt main blocks.
Save your money--its snake oil and absolutely not needed even in a racing capacity. It does not strengthen the block and about the only good it does is that it "might" contain the rotating assembly when the block still gives out primarily due to cap walk. Requires special machining to be true to the caps.

BTW, any year 351w block will be happy with up to 600hp at less than 6500rpms and live a long time with "only" 2 bolt mains. If you want to sustained at 7K+ rpm potential, then you're building a race engine and you should spend your $ on a good aftermarket 4 bolt block with the smaller diameter Cleveland mains.

Dennis

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Last edited by dennis111; 05-30-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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Save your money--its snake oil and absolutely not needed even in a racing capacity. It does not strengthen the block and about the only good it does is that it "might" contain the rotating assembly when the block still gives out primarily due to cap walk. Requires special machining to be true to the caps.

BTW, any year 351w block will be happy with up to 600hp at less than 6500rpms and live a long time with "only" 2 bolt mains. If you want to sustained at 7K+ rpm potential, then you're building a race engine and you should spend your $ on a good aftermarket 4 bolt block with the smaller diameter Cleveland mains.
Good info, thanks Dennis....I'll definately have it below 600 hosepower probably looking at just a tad below 500 with everything configured the way I see it in the scheme of things right now. I figure on a used block, a new rotating assembly, used aluminum heads with 200cc intake runners, 2.02 or 2.08 valves, a hydraulic roller cam with around 600 lift and 290 or better duration, a single plane intake , and matched carb and I'm good to go. My biggest worry is walking the overbore tight rope, hoping I don't split a cylinder but I figure sonic testing will help there.
Then I may scrap this idea all together and just buy a crate motor. Engine building has always had a strong appeal to me and I have built a few but it has been a while since I wrenched on one. I do however like the idea of having a reputable builder build what I want who has lots more knowlege at engine building than I do, but dang I love putting them together too UGGGH!.
It's all going in a restomod street/strip 66 Mustang coupe that will be decked out with mods capable of containing thata much horsepower......
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 01:38 PM
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showdown1966 View Post
I'm not really concerned with durability so much because the car I will put this in will be a show car. I just want it to be loud and obnoxious when I start it up.
Quote:
I'm looking for the true race car sound I guess you could say and I absolutely hate the sound of a mushy 8:1 or 9:1 motor.
Quote:
. . .that would allow me to strengthen the bottom end some what
You are becoming a moving target. I think you need to step back and really get a handle on what you want this engine to do. We can suggest 101 awesome designs for builds that may/will be wrong for your final use.

For example, you do not need 11:1 compression to get the engine to have that sharp exhaust pop and wicked rasp. A 9:1 engine can do that if you use the right cam, as it's all a matter of dynamic compression - not static compression ratio. However, that would be for the show engine you started the thread with - not a true performance stroker built for big power. So, what are you really after?

David

PS: There are many differences between the GM and Ford blocks. The Fords are lighter, yet their 2-bolt mains are much stronger than the GM 2-bolt blocks. Let's target the purpose fo the build, and then we can add stuff that you need, and cut stuff you don't.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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Originally Posted by PSIG View Post
You are becoming a moving target. I think you need to step back and really get a handle on what you want this engine to do. We can suggest 101 awesome designs for builds that may/will be wrong for your final use.

For example, you do not need 11:1 compression to get the engine to have that sharp exhaust pop and wicked rasp. A 9:1 engine can do that if you use the right cam, as it's all a matter of dynamic compression - not static compression ratio. However, that would be for the show engine you started the thread with - not a true performance stroker built for big power. So, what are you really after?

David

PS: There are many differences between the GM and Ford blocks. The Fords are lighter, yet their 2-bolt mains are much stronger than the GM 2-bolt blocks. Let's target the purpose fo the build, and then we can add stuff that you need, and cut stuff you don't.
I apologize for that I get to studying these things and the more I study the meaner it gets (the build).........Its fun to build engines and I've never been able to build one that turned out as basic as what my intentions were.....I think the closest I've ever come to hitting my original goal was a 305 Chevy I built that I turned into a bottom end torque monster with a stock sounding idle. Those motors aren't built for torque but I just had to prove that I could do it. It had low end torque that would rival most production big blocks. It was so stout I couldn't keep a transmission together behind it, kept eating second gear, 3 700R4's in one year........
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 06:32 AM
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showdown1966 View Post
I'm looking for the true race car sound I guess you could say and I absolutely hate the sound of a mushy 8:1 or 9:1 motor. I also found something through talking with the folks @ Keith Craft Performance Engines via email that would allow me to strengthen the bottom end some what, something that I feel was probably developed as an answer for the lack of stock 4 bolt main blocks in the Windsor family and that is this, I don't think it will be a strong as a 4 bolt bottom end but it should be a lot stronger than stock:
Canton Racing Products 21-062 Canton Racing Main Cap Supports - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS
They make these for the 351 and 302 2 bolt main blocks.
So you want it to sound something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=dILMgirAox4
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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So you want it to sound something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=dILMgirAox4
Yes a friend of mine has a 427 Windsor motor in his stang and I like it........I want my mine to sound a little more NASCAR-ish but that is close......
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 09:11 AM
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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Yes a friend of mine has a 427 Windsor motor in his stang and I like it........I want my mine to sound a little more NASCAR-ish but that is close......
You can get that sound just by putting a monster cam in a stock motor, and putting the right exhaust on the car.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2014, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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You can get that sound just by putting a monster cam in a stock motor, and putting the right exhaust on the car.
Yep I figured on doing an x-pipe set up and that should get me the sound I'm looking for........I also remember reading in some of the tech articles about getting the hard hitting sound out of a lower compression motor by using a certain type of split duration cam. If I remember right, Comp Cams Thumper series does this. My thinking now is if I could combine that technology with and 11:1 motor what would that sound like?
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-02-2014, 02:57 AM
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Re: Stock 351W blocks and stroker cranks

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Yep I figured on doing an x-pipe set up and that should get me the sound I'm looking for........I also remember reading in some of the tech articles about getting the hard hitting sound out of a lower compression motor by using a certain type of split duration cam. If I remember right, Comp Cams Thumper series does this. My thinking now is if I could combine that technology with and 11:1 motor what would that sound like?
Why don't you just buy a used Nascar engine and be done with it? Then you'll have exactly the engine you want. There's a couple of people that have put these motors in late-model cars, and are racing them in the NASA American iron series.
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