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post #31 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 01:10 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

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ok, none one here likes to guess at things because we all just want you to get exactly what you want, although some of us might use slightly different approaches [parts] to get people there, therefore, it would be FAR better for you if you could answer the few questions below, otherwise, you might end up with what we want but not what you want . . these are the same questions i always asked people at the shop, and when they said they want a 400 hp engine, i would take them for a ride in a car with a real 400 hp engine and most of them quickly changed their mind and lowered their requirements, lol . . please answer them one at a time.

1. do you want a mild, moderate or nasty dragster type idle?

2. do you want the engine to have no shake at idle, or a little shake, or do you want it to shake your teeth out?

3. do you want a lite to lite drag car or a freeway flier or inbetween?

4. do you want to cruise at 60, or 70 or 80 mph for long periods of time?

5. are you willing to change the rear gears?

6. do you want to roast the bejesus out of the tires?

7. are you willing to install an overdrive transmission?

8. do you want the exhaust inside the cab to be quiet, slightly noisy or obnoxiously loud?

9. do you have power steering?

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Last edited by barnett468; 09-09-2015 at 01:18 PM.
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post #32 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 03:03 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

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HEAD DIMENSIONS

C1AE . . . . . PORTS . IN 2.34 X 1.34 . . EX 1.84 X 1.28 . VALVES 2.02 1.55
COBRA JET . PORTS . IN 2.34 X 1.34 . . EX 1.84 X 1.28 . VALVES 2.08 1.65


INTAKE MANIFOLDS

Blue thunder makes 4 different intakes . . You would want the base model, but it might be a bit of overkill for your app imo . . It looks almost identical to the factory Police intake, but it is not . . It is for even higher performance apps . . I really think for your app, you still might be better off with something else.

BLUE THUNDER INTAKES

INTAKE MANIFOLDS (F.E.)


The base model is p/n M-428CJ-4V



CIAE . PORTS . 2.14 x 1.16 . . Area = 2.48





POLICE INTERCEPTOR . PORTS . 1.94 x 1.24.





1968 GT390



428 CJ . ports 1.94 x 1.24 . . Area = 2.41 sq”






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Last edited by barnett468; 09-09-2015 at 03:31 PM.
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post #33 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Barnett, here's your answers:

1. Mild to moderate. I want someone to wonder a bit what's under the hood.
2. No shake
3. In between, although most of the driving this car does is highway.
4. 80...I live in Montana, a while back we didn't have a speed limit, so that should give you a clue. Lots of room and just a handful of HP's
5. Possibly, but I'm guessing I won't need to.
6. No. I bust my ass for what I have, I'm not into destroying something I worked hard for.
7. I may be interested in converting the car to manual down the road. The closer I get to death, the less I'm going to care if the car is original or not.
8. Slightly noisy, I like a good rumble and my hearing is crap after swinging a hammer my whole life.
9. Yes.

As for the rebuild, yes I intend to do it myself, which is why I'm researching all I can before I start. I did a few when I was a kid, but that was before internet, cell phones, and remote controls, so I don't mind confessing to being a "rookie". Not afraid of a challenge though, and you can rest assure that I'll have a good handle on things before I ever turn a bolt.

On the push rod thing, I guess it was my understanding that once you started increasing your cam size, it was important to pay close attention to the valve train assembly, including push rod size and how it's positioned. I just wanted to make sure I covered that base if I was going to move beyond stock.
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post #34 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

I did check out DSC Motorsport and they have quite a selection of manifolds. Thanks
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post #35 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 03:39 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

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This is a 64 galaxy with factory cast iron headers.


Last edited by barnett468; 09-09-2015 at 03:55 PM.
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post #36 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 04:03 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke1622 View Post
Barnett, here's your answers:

1. Mild to moderate. I want someone to wonder a bit what's under the hood.
2. No shake
3. In between, although most of the driving this car does is highway.
4. 80...I live in Montana, a while back we didn't have a speed limit, so that should give you a clue. Lots of room and just a handful of HP's
5. Possibly, but I'm guessing I won't need to.
6. No. I bust my ass for what I have, I'm not into destroying something I worked hard for.
7. I may be interested in converting the car to manual down the road. The closer I get to death, the less I'm going to care if the car is original or not.
8. Slightly noisy, I like a good rumble and my hearing is crap after swinging a hammer my whole life.
9. Yes.

As for the rebuild, yes I intend to do it myself, which is why I'm researching all I can before I start. I did a few when I was a kid, but that was before internet, cell phones, and remote controls, so I don't mind confessing to being a "rookie". Not afraid of a challenge though, and you can rest assure that I'll have a good handle on things before I ever turn a bolt.

On the push rod thing, I guess it was my understanding that once you started increasing your cam size, it was important to pay close attention to the valve train assembly, including push rod size and how it's positioned. I just wanted to make sure I covered that base if I was going to move beyond stock.

ok, xlnt . . all that can easily be achieved ill get back to you in a bit and others probably will also so just weed thru everything and use what fits your needs.
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post #37 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Thanks, the info you've already provided has been huge. I've probably owned 6 F250's over the years, all early seventies. They all had FE motors and I kept them running pretty good. Had no idea though until I started poking around there were so many similarities between 352 thru the 428. To be honest, its been a bit overwhelming, but this site has helped me start to get a handle on what I want to do. I look forward to your suggestions.
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post #38 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-09-2015, 05:15 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

.
Answers to your replies.


1. The sound will have to be done thru the exhaust only because you do not want it to shake at idle.

2. Ok grandpa, we can do that . . I and others will post cam suggestions that will achieve that and still deliver good overall power . . I would definitely stay away from cams that are “bigger” than the ones below, otherwise you will get some degree of engine shake at idle . . In general, the wider the lobes are on the cam, which is called LSA [lobe center angle], the smoother it will idle if all other aspects are the same . . Most stock factory cams have an LSA of around 115.

COMP XE256H . . This will idle as smooth as a 59 Lincoln but will simply rip your head off right off idle but will start to fall on its face around 4200 rpm which may not be bad at all for your 18,000 lb car . . When combined with other matching parts, this thing is a stump puller . . I have used it many times in different lower performance apps . . If you never floor your car until it reaches peak rpm, then this is definitely a cam I would consider . . Others might see this and laugh at it but you are not building an 18,000 lb dragster.

COMP XE262H HYD P/N 33-238-4 . . This will have good bottom but less than the one above but it will continue to rev with power around 400 rpm higher it will have more mid range punch than the Crane below . . If you often floor your car until it is about to puke, then this would be far better than the cam above.

Advertised dur 262 270 . . dur @ .050 218 224 . . lift .513 .520 . . lsa 110 . . rpm 1300 - 5500

CRANE 390GT and 428CJ C6OZ-6250-B HYD P/N 34-C6OZ-B

………………………………………dur @ .050 206 220 . . lift .489 .489 . .lsa 116.5 . . ………………………

3. Then I would build a 420 instead of a 406, because the extra cubes will help you achieve ALL your goals, and keep in mind, it costs exactly the same as a 406 and still has a user friendly rod to stroke ratio, plus the piston pin will still be below the oil ring land . . I can not think of a single reason not to build a 420 for your app.

4. Leave the gears you have then and run a small cam . . The extra cubes will increase the acceleration.

5. N/A

6. N/A

7. If you convert to any manual trans, it will accelerate faster even with the same rear gears . . If you use a wide ratio, it will be a hair more sluggish in first than with a wide ratio.

8. This can be achieved a few different ways . . If you use steel headers instead of iron ones, you will hear more noise in the cab . . There are a zillion different mufflers . . below are a few.

DYNOMAX DUAL WALL STAINLESS – these will give a little noise in the cab at steady throttle and will give more when you accelerate . . these have what I would call a moderate noise level but far from obnoxious and I think they will be in your ballpark . . Hear them in the video below at 4:30.

DYNOMAX AND THRUSH SUPER TURBO . . Hear them in the video below at 4:45

FLOWMASTER 3 CHAMBER – this will be louder everywhere but will still not be obnoxious.

ORIGINAL FLOWMASER 10 SINGLE BAFFLE – These are the mufflers from hell and will instantly piss off all your neighbors and set off every car alarm within a 3 mile radius . . I love these things.

.

Last edited by barnett468; 09-09-2015 at 05:47 PM.
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post #39 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 12:23 AM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

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ok, i tried to narrow it down for you in hopes that it would make things a little easier.



RINGS

Call Total Seal and ask what is best for your app.

http://015ef8d.netsolhost.com/ContactUs.aspx



PISTONS

Get the wide skirt if possible and get the 4032 material and .990 pin . . Tell them exactly what rings you will use . . 3 week delivery.

RaceTec & AutoTec Pistons specializes in custom pistons for Sprint Cars, Dirt Modified & Dirt




RODS 6.7 LONG WITH .990 PIN FOR 4.125 CRANK STROKE INTERNAL BALANCED

These will work on either crank below.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/es...view/make/ford



CRANK 4.125 STROKE

Either one of these will work . . The journals on both are the same size.

EAGLE SPCLTY CAST CRANKSHAFT 104284125

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-9fe100



VALVES

SS VALVES, FE FORD, CJ W/ 2.090/1.650, HIGH PERFORMANCE 428 - Alex's Parts Sales

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Last edited by barnett468; 09-10-2015 at 12:51 AM.
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post #40 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 05:16 AM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Duke,

Listen to Ross (my427stang). He offered some great advice and has lots of FE experience.

I specialize in Ford engines and do more than a fair share of FE's... Here's some info that may help you out.

1. Scat over Eagle. No execptions. Every time I have read of an aftermarket FE crankshaft breaking, it's been an Eagle. They tend to break right behind the 1/5 rod journal.

2. Go with as much stroke as you can. All of the Scat FE cranks are generally the same price. No reason at all to pass up cubic inches and horsepower.

3. If you're wanting an "off-the-shelf" deal, I would have no qualms about going 4.080" with a 352 block. Ross did point out that a sonic test would be prudent. I agree. I also don't know anyone that charges $250 to do one....????? The .030" 390 stroker kit combos would have a rotating assembly in your hands pretty quickly. If you're wanting to save the cylinders and just bore/hone enough to make the cylinders straight and round, then a custom piston would be a good option. No issues with heating with larger bore sizes. That seems to be one of those internet wives' tales that get passed around with nothing to support them.

I like to use more modern ring pack dimensions (something like a 1.5/1.5/3mm) and sometimes a custom piston will give you better design options.

4. I have a few camshafts that I like to use with my 445 engines and I would be happy to give you a recommendation based on what your budget is and what your goals are.

5. As for cylinder heads, it's really hard to beat an aftermarket aluminum head in performance and value. You can weigh the price of a good Edelbrock/BBM/Survival Motorsports head against the cost of taking a set of factory pieces, pressure testing them, surfacing them, guide work, valve job, cutting them for modern seals, adding valves, etc. You will most likely find that you can get a 270 cfm head for about the price of reworking a set of factory 220 cfm pieces.

You mentioned speaking to Barry on the first page. He will certainly not steer you in the wrong direction and will be a wealth of information for you. I'd be more than happy to help you as well if you need some direction. You can hop on my website and take a look at some of the combos on my dyno results page. Lykins Motorsports, LLC

There are a few guys out there in FE land who are very knowledgeable and have tons of FE experience. There is at least one poster on this thread who just seems to be a good Google searcher...

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports, LLC
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
[email protected]

Last edited by blykins; 09-10-2015 at 05:41 AM.
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post #41 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 05:41 AM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Brent, glad you chimed in.

Duke, recommend you check with Brent, he can give you some very specific advice and his relationship with the parts suppliers combined with lots of FE work will get you where you want to be.

Do not underestimate his ability to pick a custom cam for you and deliver. I rarely go out of the box anymore, the price is really not much more expensive and you can get exactly what you need for the performance you are looking for. With your goals it would help significantly.

A couple of additional comments

1 - Most important, you are nowhere near the parts choice time yet. Having your block checked before you buy parts is critical. Need to know overall condition, what deck height it will clean up to after square decking, and sonic check. Even if it WAS 250 dollars, which I have never seen, it is cheap insurance, you need to know if your block is good, in addition, determining deck height after a cut and how much room you could bore is critical to build vs assemble.



If we do talk about parts:


2 - Cooling is rarely an issue from overbore, it's really a ring seal and potentially strength problem as I stated before. The sonic check will tell you, and likely, even at 4.08 you'd have a couple of rebuilds left. (although again, I agree nothing wrong with a 4.03 bore)


3 - If you are going with a standard stroker of any displacement, meaning one that uses a BBC 6.70 connecting rod, I would go with a SCAT I-beam rod, the Eagle H beam,is expensive and only for looks, an I-beam will save money, be lighter and just as strong in this application.


4 - I hate to even go here yet, but the GT manifold does not flow better than anything, it is the worst FE intake out there for power, worse than the truck T intake, worse than the Performer 390, and worse than the C5 iron. I would avoid it for this application. Very small and obstructed runners for the low hoodline of the unibody cars. In some very low RPM, small cid applications it may make a little more torque at very low RPM, but the benefit disappears quickly with cubic inches.



Understand peak power may not be your ultimate goal, but that intake is likely 20 hp behind the Performer 390, and 40 behind a CJ iron on a 400 hp engine. Average torque would also be down a similar amount, although less of a gap between the CJ and Performer.



70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #42 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 10:25 AM
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Just to clarify there are worse intakes for an FE. Just no worse factory intakes...couldnt edit my last post using my cell phone while barreling through Kansas lol
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post #43 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 11:46 AM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

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duke, since there are apparently no worse intakes for an FE engine than a GT390 one, AND it got nearly 400 hp in a 390 with box stock heads in the dyno test I posted for you [but that's from the internet so they must have lied, lol], AND you said you are NOT trying to build a drag car, AND you like the idea of opening your hood and seeing a stock looking engine, AND you seem to love your original engine very much, AND it will save you up to around $400.00 if you don't buy another one, it seems to me that you might also consider running your ORIGINAL intake . . But I guess that's a horrible idea too, lol.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with giving up a few hp in exchange for appearance if appearance is also a primary objective.

I will tell you that even though I do build moderately high perf street engines, I am NOT one that subscribes to the theory that appearance should be sacrificed for performance, because a lot of the people I have built engines for don't care about having the most hp as as long as it still smokes the tires and doesn't have a flat spot when they nail the gas etc, because in many cases, they want the thing to look a certain way, and the way they sometimes want them to look is not compatible with getting every ounce of hp I can out of them, therefore my approach is obviously occasionally different than some others, but I couldn't care less what others do because what they do is their own business and has absolutely nothing to do with me.
.

Last edited by barnett468; 09-10-2015 at 12:05 PM.
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post #44 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 12:39 PM
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You are misinterpreting the reply he would be better off to follow your advice with a performer 390 and just paint it blue. The GT manifold doesn't flow as much as the heads it was matched to a high port head that only flowed to 220 CFM. If he's going to run big for kids CJ value recommended be a waste. By the way Mikes engine that you posted didn't last very long he decided to upgrade
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post #45 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-10-2015, 12:40 PM
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Sorry trying to do this by phone what I tried to say was if he is going to run big valve heads that you recommended the intake will be the bottleneck and it's not worth doing the heads to that level
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