352 to a Stroker - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
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post #1 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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352 to a Stroker

Hello All, I've got a good running 352 in my '64 Galaxie 500, but like any guy I want more power! I'm putting together build ideas, with hopes of doing something next year. My research says I can bore it out to 4.050, and install a stock 390 rotating assembly, sticking with standard bore 390 parts. The other option is to go to 4.080 and choose one of the many 390 .030+ stroker kits out there. In addition I'm planning on a mild cam upgrade, an aluminum intake, a Holley 750, and maybe some shorty-headers to top it off. The goal is to keep the car as close to stock as possible, yet have the power I need, when I need it...on pump gas. And yes, I drive this car a lot. Mostly on the highway, but it's no trailer queen.

My questions:

Is taking the bore on the 352 to 4.080 too much? It's my understanding the block is the same as a 390, but I don't want to make any assumptions.

Secondly, any suggestions in regard to the rest of my plan are welcome. I'm trying to make mistakes on paper, so if I'm headed in the wrong direction feel free let me know.

Just so everyone knows, I'm wanting to use 352 because its original and in good shape, and it seems a waste not to.

Thanks
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post #2 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 07:31 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Always good to sonic check, but I have never seen a 352 that couldn't go to 4.08

I wasn't clear from your question on whether you wanted to go 396 cid, 416 cid, or 445 cid, but if you are buying a new crank, by all means go 445. It's a GREAT combo.

Keep in mind you'll have to balance it, which adds to the build by 300 bucks or so, but in the end, the 445 is a very nice combo for the street

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post #3 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Thanks for the reply. I haven't decided on crankshaft, but have been leaning towards buying a complete stroker kit from Survival Motorsports. Probably a 3.980 stroke/416 cid. That may be too much for what I need though, which is why I'm asking you guys.
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post #4 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 04:58 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Is there such a thing as "too much"?
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post #5 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 06:19 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Here's the deal, if you are buying crank, pistons and connecting rods, there really is no reason to liming cubes. In fact, the 445 will be milder in behavior at the same power level. Barry will likely tell you that, I have known him a very long time, he'll steer you right

If you are not buying connecting rods the 416 is slightly cheaper, because it uses a 6.49 rod out of a 390, unfortunately it will not use the 6.54 short stroke connecting rod.

Don't worry about too much power, there were 460s in mellow grandma cars as well as 455s Olds and Buicks, 500 Caddys, the cubes don't make it radical

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #6 of 82 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Thanks again, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for. Learning what can be done with the FE motor is interesting for sure. I sent Barry an e-mail prior to my post here, haven't heard back, but I'm assuming he's a busy guy. I'm reading his book on FEs at the moment, and look forward to his suggestions. In my build, my biggest concern is not taking it too far. Aside from leaving a teenaged, nipple-grabber in a rice-grinder behind at a stop light, I seriously doubt I'll be doing any drag racing. I do however want the old Galaxie to have the umph whenever its called for. Right now she cruises fine, but it takes awhile to get there. I drive the car as much as possible during the summer and fall, mainly to work and back. And I also want to be able to do road trips every now and then, so the motor needs to be able to deal with pump gas and long hauls as well. Originally I was just going to bore the 352 .030 over and add a few extras...but then I discovered all this stroker crap, and now I fear I'm doomed
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post #7 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

How about the 352 heads, are they worth a rebuild?
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post #8 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 03:23 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Tough question on the heads.
I'd be hard pressed to spend money on C1AE heads when I could get Edelbrock aluminum heads for not much more.

I think the wise engine to build is a 445, and if you want it tolerable for daily driving just use a smaller cam. I have never driven one, but I suspect a 445 with a 270s cam would idle it 600rpms and roar when needed. It would just probably lay down early (5000 rpms maybe?). A solid flat tappet would certain fit the period correct feel as well.

1976 F100 390/c6
1963.5 Galaxie 446FE/c6
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post #9 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 04:40 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Nothing wrong with an early 352 head, but add up the costs and see if they are worth it. If you need seats, guides, valves, springs and assembly, often the Edelbrocks are a better buy, but sometimes they aren't if you have decent prices in your area

Deeproots gave a decent recommendation for a cam, I did a 270H in a 445 for my truck and it worked out nice, but realize that it's tough to buy off the shelf parts to build a 445 at under 10:1 compression, and 10:1 with a 270S or 270H is really right on the ragged edge of being fuel friendly in a 445. I actually retarded my 270H by 4 degrees and it did well, line up dot to dot, it likely would have been a bit more fussy. Less cam would be tougher unless you bought custom pistons to drop the compression

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #10 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Thanks, after reading Barry's book I was thinking Edelbrock heads as well. In my other research on 352 heads the only thing I could find beyond ordinary was in the 352HP, built in '60, I believe. Mine is just a stock 352, built in '64. As to the compression issue, if go with a stroker kit from Survival I'd probably opt for the 9.8:1 pistons to keep things pump friendly. Still researching the cam, but I'll definitely keep you suggestions in mind. Thanks again!
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post #11 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 03:57 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

.
ok, you have an 18,000 lb car and you want quicker acceleration and still want to be able to cruise for days at 75 mph.

the best way to do this is to run an engine with bigger displacement . . the bigger the displacement, the faster it will accelerate.

you will accelerate much more quickly if you change your rear gear ratio to one that is numerically higher, however, that will increase your engine rpm at freeway speed.

if your gears are currently around 2.80, i would go to at least 3.00 for your app no matter what engine size you use . . 3.23 is the numerically highest i would use.

going up 1 gear size with your current engine will be slightly noticeable . . going up by 2 sizes will be very noticeable but still wont be a drastic change in acceleration feel.

going up 3 or more sizes will be a drastic change in acceleration feel.

heres a very cool an rpm vs mph calculator you can play with . . enter 1.0 for trans ratio and 2.80, 3.00, and 3.23 for gear ratio and it will compare all 3 at the same time.

RPM/MPH From Gear Ratio Calculator by Wallace Racing

you absolutely must get rid of those horrible exhaust manifolds if you want to increase power . . you can buy shorty headers or old cast iron factory 427 headers from a 64 top oiler etc if you can find therm . . you may also be able to use 428 cj cast iron headers but the repos are $1,000.00.

.

Last edited by barnett468; 09-07-2015 at 04:03 PM.
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post #12 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

Thanks Barnett, I'll add your info to my research. Not sure what the gear ratio currently is in the car, but I'll make it a point to check as I put my plan together.
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post #13 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 06:17 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

.
No prob, you're welcome . . Here's some more info for you.

I definitely do not believe that bigger is always better even if the cost to go bigger is the same . . There is such a thing as too much of a good thing or more power [and less mileage] than one wants or needs.


There is not one good thing on the list below imo.

Boring the engine out to .050", is not a big deal if the cylinder thickness is ok . . Going to .080" even if they are ok is something I wouldn't do in your case . . Although some people have done this, imo, it is not a prudent thing to do because you first have to have the cylinder walls sonic checked to make sure they are thick enough, and this can cost around $250.00 . . Some of the problems are that they could be thin on one side due to a core shift and/or they could be thin in areas from 50 years of rust eating away at them inside the water jacket.

Also, even if you get away with boring it out that far, what are you going to do if you keep it long enough to need to bore it again?

Also, the more stroke you have, the greater the cooling requirements are.

The thinner the cylinder walls are, the greater the cooling requirements are.

The heavier the car is, the greater the cooling requirements are.


There are several good things on the list below imo.

Imo, the safest thing to do is simply use a 3.98, or 4.125 crank and have a set of custom pistons made . . I have had lots of custom pistons made . . JE will make them for around $900.00 . . Some of the other places will make them for around $800.00 . . The PROBE stroker pistons are around $550.00 . . If you add $550.00 to the $250.00 the sonic check would cost, you are at $800.00 . . For just 0 dollars more than that amount, you can have custom pistons made, and for $150.00 more, you can have a set of one of the best pistons on the market, PLUS there will be no concern that your engine will be hard to cool in your 4,000 lb car, AND you can still bore it out again if you need.

If your bore is good enough, you can just get pistons made that are only .010" or .020" bigger which will preserve even more of your cylinder wall thickness.


A 3.980" crank with a 4.030" bore = 406 ci.

A 4.125" crank with a 4.030" bore = 420 ci.

I can tell you that increasing a 302 engine 45 ci to 347 ci, then adding even just a mild performance cam and a little better head flow etc, is a very noticeable increase in power.

Increasing a 352 by 54 ci to a 406, and adding a even just a mild performance cam and a little better head flow etc, is a very noticeable increase in power.

It will not turn it into a fire breathing tire burner with mild mods, but even just doing stroking it to 406 ci and getting a little more head, intake and exhaust flow, will make a day and night difference in power, AND if you also change the rear gears by even 1 step with this increase in engine power, it will be a BIG change.

I would opt for the 406 over the 390 at the very least . . If you want big time bottom and mid range torque, I would go 420 . . The cost is exactly the same

Even with the 4.125 stroke and 6.7" long rod, the rod ratio is still a very favorable 1.62.

A 347 stroker with the long rod is around 1.5, which is worse and they rev those to 6,000 rpm all the time.


.

Last edited by barnett468; 09-07-2015 at 07:09 PM.
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post #14 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 09:04 PM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

.
OK, I was bored, so here’s some info on how to build a do it yourself 406 OR 420 ci stroker for the same price as other kits with equal quality parts.

You will see that the Eagle cranks are $200.00 less than the Scat cranks, however, for your app, they are way more than good enough, so there is no reason not to buy one.


CUSTOM PISTON CALL FOR INFO [the compression height for a 10.17 block with 4.125 stroke would be 1.4085] I would use 4032 material for your app, plus it might cost less ........................ Approximately $850.00.

RaceTec & AutoTec Pistons specializes in custom pistons for Sprint Cars, Dirt Modified & Dirt

http://www.rosspistons.com/contact.php

JE Pistons Manufactures Quality Forged Pistons for the Domestic Automotive, Sport Compact,

Powersports and Racing Markets

Automobile Forged Pistons & Performance Parts - Wiseco Piston Inc.



EXTERNAL BALANCED CAST CRANK

EAGLE 3.98 STROKE http://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp-104283980 .......................... $414.00

SCAT 3.98O STROKE 2.438 ROD JOURNAL http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-942810 ... $640.00


INTERNAL BALANCED CAST CRANK

EAGLE 4.125 STROKE EAGLE SPCLTY CAST CRANKSHAFT 104284125 ………............................ $478.00
Or have Summit order it and pay around $440.00 plus free shipping.

SCAT 4.125 STROKE LIGHTWEIGHT 2.200 ROD JOURNAL http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-9fe100 .................................................. .................................................. ....................... $ 640.00


FORGED H AND I BEAM RODS 6.700 LONG . . Get the correct big end to match the crank journal.

MISCELLANEOUS http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...d-big-block-fe ........................... $450.00



EAGLE 4.125 STROKE INTERNAL BALANCED CRANK ............................................ $450.00
EAGLE FORGED H BEAM RODS .................................................. ..................... $450.00
CUSTOM FORGED PISTONS .................................................. ........................ $850.00
ANY BRAND OF PLASMA MOLY RINGS ........................................... Approximately $125.00
CLEVELITE ROD AND CRANK BEARINGS .................................................. .......... $125.00

TOTAL COST .................................................. .......................................... $2000.00
.

Last edited by barnett468; 09-08-2015 at 02:19 PM.
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post #15 of 82 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 04:06 AM
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Re: 352 to a Stroker

To the original poster, a discussion similar to this one is in the thread below, before you purchase any parts, recommend you dig through this older post, especially if considering an Eagle crank for an FE

https://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-...90-thread.html

Also, be sure to have any aftermarket crank balanced to your needs, I don't remember if it's addressed in the post above, but what the companies call internally balanced, isn't.

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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