387 Boss (Clevor) first build. - Ford Muscle Forums : Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2018, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

Howdy all I'm new here, alright here's the lowdown.
I'm about to start building my first motor, I haven't purchased any parts yet but anyways, my starting point is going to be a 351 Windsor roller block, I'm going to keep the stock bore size and only finish hone the cylinders, I've got a quote for an all forged rotating assembly from Coast HP for 2 grand, TMoss quoted a port job on a GT40 upper and lower for about 400, I'll be using Aussie 302C 2v heads ("small" ports/closed chambers) and get the GT40 ported to match the Cleveland ports, I found an adapter for a 351w block with 351c 4v heads to mount a 351w intake so although its twice the gaskets I can keep the EFI and stuff simple, and I'll be going with a custom ground cam.

Now I need some advice on setting up the valvetrain, I've done some searching and turned up nothing, are there any major differences in setting it up? What would be the parts I should use?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 06:54 AM
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Re: 387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

Your plan is an expensive one. All the adapters, rebuilding old heads, custom headers, etc... The intake you mentioned is on the small side. It's on the small side for stock displacement, let alone a stroker. Choosing the right intake to start with, would yield the best results. Trying to force the GT40 to work is a waste of your budget.

Back in the early 1990's, this would be a viable plan. Today, there are MUCH better parts, and no adapters or custom parts are required. Using a more updated plan will be significantly less expensive, and produce a lot more power.

If you insist on using the old parts/adapters/etc... expect to hit a lot of roadblocks along the way, and you'll likely triple your original budget.

I've ported a set of Aussie 351C heads. They are ROUGH inside, and need a lot of work. They will also need a TON of machine work. After you fully rebuild them with all new parts, set them up for an adjustable valvetrain, etc... you would be dollars ahead to buy a new set of heads. Stock 351C valves are junk. The heads break off and junk things when used with aftermarket cams, etc. They also use those multi-groove keepers, which hold the valve loosely... also junk. Major dollars required to set them up right... and they still won't run with less expensive aftermarket pieces.

Good luck to you, if you bull through this and follow through, but I'd strongly recommend a more updated combination. If you have a good 351W block, building a 408 stroker is the best bang for your buck. Add a big set of 351W style heads, matching intake, etc... and you'll make a lot more power for less money.

Good Luck

Last edited by n2omike; 11-22-2018 at 07:01 AM.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Actually it's pretty straightforward for the build, most parts are easily accessible, also it "appears" that a set of Windsor headers could be "adjusted" to mount up, I'd have to get the gaskets and check.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 08:59 AM
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Re: 387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWP_SWP View Post
Howdy all I'm new here, alright here's the lowdown.
I'm about to start building my first motor, I haven't purchased any parts yet but anyways, my starting point is going to be a 351 Windsor roller block, I'm going to keep the stock bore size and only finish hone the cylinders, I've got a quote for an all forged rotating assembly from Coast HP for 2 grand, TMoss quoted a port job on a GT40 upper and lower for about 400, I'll be using Aussie 302C 2v heads ("small" ports/closed chambers) and get the GT40 ported to match the Cleveland ports, I found an adapter for a 351w block with 351c 4v heads to mount a 351w intake so although its twice the gaskets I can keep the EFI and stuff simple, and I'll be going with a custom ground cam.

Now I need some advice on setting up the valvetrain, I've done some searching and turned up nothing, are there any major differences in setting it up? What would be the parts I should use?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!
One thing I would recommend is that you get a bore gauge on those cylinders and make sure they are straight and the clearances will work out right, to check it accurately bolt the heads on and go from the bottom. I think you will find three things, the bore will be all over the place, clearances will be loose, and the decks won't be square. Especially if you are going with a 4032 piston, which you likely should for an EFI street car. I'd also shoot for a .040-.045 quench distance, if you don't keep it tight you give up the benefits of the Aussie head and its good chamber and squish

The build will go much better even with a minor overbore and torque plate hone and square deck, it'll last longer, make more power and just overall be better

As far as setting up the valvetrain, should be easy, measure intalled height on your heads, match open and closed pressure to your cam, use quality components. Use adjustable rockers and mock up the pushrod length until you get the pattern you want, then order that length

Don't be afraid to do a little rubbing on those heads, they can use it, also, I assume you are using a Factory EEC-IV computer, it'll run OK stock, but to really get there, you'll need to size injectors correctly and get into the tune. I use the Quarterhorse chip and Binary Editor on a laptop to tune my EFI 489 inch FE

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2018, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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My truck currently has a SPEED DENSITY computer *gasp* , I found a replacement computer that'll run a 351w and E4od transmission, and its Mass air.

My displacement target is 387, if I can hit that (even if it's a few decimals over) I'll do it.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 06:59 AM
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Re: 387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

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Originally Posted by NWP_SWP View Post
My truck currently has a SPEED DENSITY computer *gasp* , I found a replacement computer that'll run a 351w and E4od transmission, and its Mass air.

My displacement target is 387, if I can hit that (even if it's a few decimals over) I'll do it.
You can manipulate the SD computers too, just takes a little more thinking. That being said, the mass air versions are pretty easy and lots of people doing it.

Don't mistake my recommendation for boring as being for more cubes, it's for a better ring seal. The strongest, thickest, straightest cylinder you can have is what you need.

In fact, I am doing two 461 inch strokers right now, and we bored to .025 over to save cylinder wall, and finish honed it with a torque plate on both sides, which not only stressed the deck, but also made it very straight in operation. Running one engine with the pistons .010 above deck and the other at zero, and one will have 1.0 mm compression rings and a 2.0 mm oil ring to save of bore wear, make more power and seal tighter, the other will use 1.5mm and 3.0 oil ring pack for the same reason, but I am doing both to compare leakdown between the two. This makes all the difference in the world. I have seen a stock cylinder move 8 thousandths by torquing the head on.

The EEC-IV will be easy, you'll likely have to add injector size depending on how wild you cam it. You can cheat quite a bit with injector slope and duration and adding fuel pressure, but in the end, adding more air and 30 cubes will likely need injectors.

Have you considered going with a set of aftermarket Windsor heads? Certainly not as cool, I get it, but could be much cheaper and make more power.

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah but how many guys have a Boss Lightning? That's what I'm building a Boss Supercab Lightning.
And I've been told I dont know how many times the SD computers "cant" be tuned, I'm still going to go MAF though because it's a better system.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-23-2018, 05:18 PM
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Re: 387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

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Yeah but how many guys have a Boss Lightning? That's what I'm building a Boss Supercab Lightning.
And I've been told I dont know how many times the SD computers "cant" be tuned, I'm still going to go MAF though because it's a better system.
Sounds cool to me. Buy a Quarterhorse, some bigger injectors and get to tuning

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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So could I get it bored and still stay within 387.XX CI? So like only a few thousandths of an inch, like .004 or less?

Also would I be better served using aftermarket Cleveland heads and something like a Trick Flow Track Heat intake?
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 06:12 PM
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Re: 387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

The block will tell you where it needs to go, depends how crooked and worn it is What's the reason for staying 387?

However, yes you can buy pistons and rings for whatever size you want. My 489 FE Mustang is .047 over, and the two 461s in the shop right now are .025 over. Very easy nowadays

As far as being better served by aftermarket stuff, hell yeah, but it depends on the entire build, gearing, converter, etc, however a set of Chi 3V heads or even more standard Chi heads could give you 100 hp more with the same combo, maybe even more. However the budget will climb higher too

Recommend you join up here: www.the351cforum.com ? Index page

Ask Blykins, Brent Lykins of Lykins Motorsports some questions, he is a very sharp builder, one of the few I would trust if I didn't do this myself, he's also the site owner and sells parts too. He's a good buddy and knows the small block parts choices a bit better than I do. He is a member here at FM too but that is his site and likely has more people who have done Clevors than here. Happy to hang with you on the EFI stuff though as that's my game a bit more than his

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-24-2018, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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I like the odd number displacements, 357, 427, 429, ect. I could bore it .050 over and get 397, more CI the better? I'm joining the Cleveland forum right now.
My goal right now is to make more HP than what I've got now (it's like 135 rwhp from the factory) I'm going to email CHP Monday to see if I can get a lower compression ratio, I'm considering supercharging to make up the top end a little, noting radical just like 8 psi.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 09:03 AM
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Re: 387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

I'll chime in there, but almost always "more is NOT better"

I would rather have a standard bore with a stable cylinder wall than a few more cubic inches. The smaller bore will make more power, and for longer, than a thin cylinder that is bigger

Additionally, slow down with CHP, get a plan and then explore option. They are easy but not the best and certainly not the cheapest. Guys like me and Brent buy custom pistons for exactly what we need, not sorta, not whats available, exactly....and they not significantly more expensive and have lots of benefits.

Stick with Brent, or me, or whoever, determine your specific goals and budget, it often takes us a long time to pull that out of a customer. Once you do that, you just buy the stuff you need and go. FYI -you will have no issues with making a LOT more HP if you follow that recipe, but our biggest issue is often slowing a motivated customer down from buying the wrong parts

70 Sportsroof, 427 FE/489 cid, TKO-600, 31 spline 4.10, A/C. modified Mass-flo EFI/reprogrammed A9L/CnC ported Victor.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-25-2018, 10:33 AM
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Re: 387 Boss (Clevor) first build.

Boost more CID, get a Dart block.

Iowan
"Obsolete is neat"

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