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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help please. I've got a 61 Falcon 2dr with a 177 automatic (Ford O-Matic). My engine is trash and I've got a line on a 200 in a 1970 Falcon. Will this drop right in my 61, and will it bolt right up to my trans or is there some parts chasing I'll need to do. Thanks for the help folks.
 

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Contrairy to what is reported already, this is Not a drop In swap.



The exhaust system between the two is different. Thus you need to decide as to retain the original or go with the later pipe and modify things there.

Is best, fastest, easiest, if you retain the electrical from the earlier engine. Just clean up and bolt on to the side of your bigger engine. It will fit, but may not provide the performance you desire.

Is best, fastest, easiest, if you retain the fuel system too. The earlier carbs were manual choke, not auto automatic like later on.

Is best, fastest, easiest, if you upgrade to a later three speed automatic transmission. The little two speed Fordomatic will not hang in there very long, unless you downgrade the HP of the engine.

Yes, it will fit without welding, but you need a few items from each car first.

Wm.
 

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You Are Right WM,

I completely read over the 1970 part I was thinking of the bolt right in part. There are a few things to take in consideration but nothing really major.

BigSam
 

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Then, how did you make the old Ford-o-matic bolt up to the back of the block? See original post, and read again. The Fordo won't bolt up to a late model engine. You need to go with later parts there. Which does not make it a drop in instalation.

Wm.
 

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Well you have me there I can't explain this. All I know is my 200 bolted right in where the 177 was with no problems. I have no idea why it just went right in. I am not a Ford pro or anything close to one all I can say6 is what I have done myself. As far as the trans bolting up I have a 2 speed automatic or ford-o-matic as you say and I had no problem at all. It all went right in. I am about to put a 250 in and I know for a fact there will have to be modifications but the 200 dropped right in. Yipes I did as you said by reading this again and now I see what you are saying he did say 3 speed. I stand corrected.

BigSam
 

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Ya know WM you have me thinking now because I had a mustang that had a 200 in it that had a 3 speed automatic in it and now I am wondering what is the difference in the setup concerning the bolting of the transmission that differs from the Falcon 200 six cylinder. Am I missing something because I have had both setups one being a 3 speed manual and a 3 speed automatic. I know the manual 3 speed is totally different but I am wondering now about the 3 speed automatic because my aunt had one as well with the 200 six cylinder. I guess my question is; are the transmissions any different from the Falcons????? Help me understand this because I do not want to lead anyone in the wrong direction and I sure don't want to buy something myself that I don't need.

BigSam
 

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Still Thinking,

Here is the post "Help please. I've got a 61 Falcon 2dr with a 177 automatic (Ford O-Matic). My engine is trash and I've got a line on a 200 in a 1970 Falcon. Will this drop right in my 61, and will it bolt right up to my trans or is there some parts chasing I'll need to do. Thanks for the help folks."

If I understand this right the question is; will a Ford 200 six cylinder motor bolt right in place where the Ford 170 six cylinder motor use to be and will the 200 six cylinder motor bolt to the Ford-O-Matic transmission that is in the Falcon that had a 170 Ford six cylinder motor? The answer is yes the Ford 200 six cylinder motor will replace the Ford 170 six cylinder motor and bolt right up to the Ford-O-Matic transmission that was bolted to the 170 Ford six cylinder motor.

WM you quoted "
The exhaust system between the two is different. Thus you need to decide as to retain the original or go with the later pipe and modify things there." This is odd because my exhaust was the same and I connected everything with no problems. Both the 200 and the 170 have the same exhaust setup and are the same size.

WM you quoted "Is best, fastest, easiest, if you retain the electrical from the earlier engine. Just clean up and bolt on to the side of your bigger engine. It will fit, but may not provide the performance you desire."

I did the same swap and I never had to do anything with the electrical it all went right in and I had no problems connecting anything. The engines are not bigger just the bore the blocks are the exact same size.

WM you quoted "
Is best, fastest, easiest, if you retain the fuel system too. The earlier carbs were manual choke, not auto automatic like later on."

This not what John asked and has nothing to do with the bolt up of the 200 motor to the transmission. John did not go into detail about what was on the motor all he asked was would the 200 bolt in where the 170 was to his 2 speed ford-o-matic.

WM you quote "Is best, fastest, easiest, if you upgrade to a later three speed automatic transmission. The little two speed Ford-o-matic will not hang in there very long, unless you downgrade the HP of the engine."

John was not asking about an upgrade or downgrade he was asking if the Ford 200 would bolt to the transmission that his Ford 170 motor was bolted to and the answer is yes it will without any problems. WM why will the "little two speed Ford-o-matic" not hang in there where the 170 motor was when John puts the 200 motor in?

There is only 19 horse power difference between the the Ford 200 at 120 HP and the Ford 170 motor at 101 HP according to Ford Engine specification.

WM you quoted "
Yes, it will fit without welding, but you need a few items from each car first."

This was not the case with my 1963 Falcon that I took the 170 motor out of and replace with a 200. Everything went right in with no problems. I never used anything from any car because the car wasn't there that the 200 came out of. All I had was the 200 motor and it all went right in without a single problem.

I don't mean to be picky but you ask me to go back and read the post and I did and I can say with experience I had no problems when I did this swap myself. You got me to thinking and it had been some time when I did this and I did some checking and I know for a fact the Ford 200 six cylinder motor will bolt right in where the Ford 170 six cylinder motor was and it will bolt right to the 2 speed Ford-O-Matic transmission. I know this to be so because I did this myself.

As I remember it now the only thing I bought during the swap was two new motor mounts because mine were wore out on the drivers side and a new exhaust donut gasket and that was it everything went right together. John go for it everything will bolt right in. If I lived close enough to you I would help you just to show you how easy this is.

BigSam
 

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According to the book I have 'The Ford Falcon Performance Handbook' it should be a direct replacement with the benifit of being able to use the Duraspark Electronic Ignition and the block should have the correct boses for an alternator bracket. If you are not in a hurry get that book by Schjeldahl. Loads of good stuff!
 

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Big Sam, I posted to him that I did the EXACT swap the original poster wanted to do, with my '61 Falcon and everything bolted in perfectly but the doughnut sizes were diffrent is all... And you two still bicker about it... LMAO :) I know you were only clarifying, but it was funny to me nonetheless :)

Anywho, for any of you who are not aware: The engines and bell bolt patterns on teh 170 and the 200 are identical from day one to 1986 with the exception that they began drilling the back of the 200's after a certain year to be able to accept the small block v-8 bell housing, but they will still fit the other transmissions...

Lastly (for me anyway...) There were THREE diffrent sizes of transmissions used that I've come across, in the Falcon an Mustang line from 60-66... There is the non sync'd 202 that's currently in my falcon weighing about 35#, there is another model of 202 that the 64-6 mustangs used that weighs about #55 and is about 1.5 inches longer, then there is the Automatic..., there is 2 types of crossmembers used for the trannies also but I can't find any...

Not that any of that matters.... The 200 will bolt in for the guy, that's what this is all about :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks so much for all the responses folks. I'm going to do the swap shortly and will post how the swap went when I'm up and running. Just for further clarification, I'm pulling the 170 out of my 61 Falcon sedan which has a 2-speed Ford-O-Matic and putting in a 200 engine from a 70 Falcon which (hopefully) will mate to the Ford O-Matic. I don't have the 70 Falcon, only the engine. Thanks again. John
 

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Oh, remembered one other problem. The tie link in the steering will hit the oil pan in the rear, unless you dent it or use the earlier oil pan which provides a bit more clearance.

Naww, once you get into it, the swap works, but is different.

How come a flat flanged exhaust pipe will bolt right up to a cone shaped outlet then? No things are a bit different. You'll see.

Wm.
 

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Coos is right about the exhaust manifolds. There are at least 3 different outlets. A small and large diameter flat flange to pipe gasket, as well as a donut type gasket(as used on sbv8's). I grew up working in a mustang/falcon restoration/parts shop and this is the truth! Lots of the sixes I worked on had the wrong manifolds. To be safe you have to check the casting # to verify what you have, not just go by the year of the car/motor. These six cyl exh mani's always burned out on the center 3rd and 4th port and/or would start to crack.

I love those 170 and 200 motors! When set up correctly, they'll run great and give you some good mpg! Your later year 200 has more crank bearings than the earlier cast 200's. Supposedly a stock later year 200 can handle some high rev's!!
 

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Oh what fun we have when things are over looked or misunderstood. The man said "I've got a line on a 200 in a 1970 Falcon" and his question was"Will this drop right in my 61, and will it bolt right up to my trans" and the answer to this question is yes the motor will bolt right up to the trans. As far as exhaust, starter, or any other little thing it was not mentioned and it was not what the man asked. No one cared to ask about anything else just attacked someone who answered exactly what was asked. I don't know of anyone who has ever changed out motors that has not had to make minor changes of some kind but the answer to the question he asked about the motor bolting to the trans is yes. Thats all I am saying heck for all any of us know the motor or the trans may not even be in the car that was not stated. I was just simply answering the question that was asked. Now I could nick pick this to death but all I did was answer the question without having to go into much detail.
 
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