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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know what assembly will work for me? GOing from a C6 to the TOP LOADER. I would really like to rebuild it on my own too...(if it is not TOO TOO hard) What will I need to do this? From what I have heard the clutch assembely will be the toughest part (finding one). Thanks for the help!

Jeff Given

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Jeff Given
Sacramento State, Home Town Corona, CA



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MightyMach on 7/24/02 1:15pm ]</font>
 

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Jeff:
If your engine is stock, a NEW stock replacement clutch from any parts place will work just fine. Should cost you around a $125 to $150. I don't recommend any Mega-pressure clutch if you're going to drive mostly street, as you will need a larger pant size after a couple weeks, get a Centerforce if your motor is anything but stock, and get the Dual friction unit, it's the best!A flywheel from an early '70's Ford pickup with a 302 will work fine, get the bellhousing, block plate, all bolts, and starter while you're at it. You'll need a clutch fork from a 71-73 Mustang, any non-429 fork will work, they are all the same. They have a C8AA part # I believe.

Give Reed's Classic 4-speeds a call, 203-265-6888, Dave has toploader rebuild kits and parts in stock, and will rebuild it for you for a good price if you get stuck. A far as rebuilding, the Haynes 65-73 Mustang repair manual has the how-to in the transmission section, and is pretty much easy to do. Just take your time, familiarize yourself with the trans before you tear it apart, and take you time....
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Not stock...Will be driven on the street more than sttrip, will see the strip though.

What parts will I be able find at the wrecking yard? Will these be RARE finds or somewhat common?

Thanks a lot!

Jeff Given
 

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I assume that since you have a C-6, that you have a 351C-4V motor, therefore you should be able to get the bellhousing, flywheel, block plate (important) and other little goodies at any wrecking yard from a early to mid seventies ford truck or van with a 302 or 351W with a manual trans. This will give you the 164 tooth C7TE flywheel that accepts the 11" clutch. It is Hollander interchange # 410, which you can tell the guys at the wrecking yard. It came in 68-76 Ford Truck 302, 66-77 Bronco 289/302, Mustang/Cougar 69-73 351W & C, Torino Montego 70-74 351. A very common flywheel.

Or you could spend alot of $ and get a steel unit from Hays, Sheiffer etc.

Like I said, if it is still in the truck pull it out youself and you can get all the bolts and little hardware you'll need.

You'll have to get a starter for a manual trans, as yours will not work. Trans mount is the same, C-6 crossmember will work.

As far as the rest, the pedals, frame and engine side pivots, pushrods, Z-bar & clutch fork, you could get them from any Mustang or Cougar 71-73, from a 250 6-cyl up to a 351 4V car. All the same stuff. You'll find them on eBay, but you'll PAY over there. Try some of the Mustang wrecking yards in your area, you may find some good deals. If you can't find a pedal assembly with a power brake pedal, you can trim the pedal on the one you have now. As far as the pushrod boot, you'll have to either get one for your car, that means you'll need to remove your steering column, or get one for an earlier car and make it work.

Get the Hurst Competition Plus shifter, no floor trimming required, great shifter.

This sounds alot more complicated than it really is, the hardest part is getting the self locking nuts of the brake booster studs at the firewall. Requires a long extension and a swivel socket.

Since you intend to go to the strip, then get the Centerforce Dual Friction clutch. It'll take you a long time to wear that one out. And no "Clutch-Leg" either.



Let me know if you need any more info.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hemikiller on 4/9/02 6:33am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
SWEET! Now this is what I was looking at for the clutch assembly:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1818851670&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1018578225&indexURL=0&rd=1

is that too much? I have a VERY VERY GOOD IN at quite a few wrecking yards, so I am sure that we can get some parts there. (Dads good friend owns about 4, and knows all the others) What do I need to get from him, and what do I need to find on Ebay? I will see this guy April 27, and 28th as me, my dad and him are going to the NASCAR races in Fontana
What about the Top Loader? RARE RARE find or is it common in a wrecking yard? I see Ebay has quite a few. Thanks A LOT!!

I am really gonna do this!!! DAMN I CANT WAIT!!!

Jeff Given
 

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Jeff: Read the heading, it says Maverick, not Mustang. But, that is the type of stuff you'll need, the pedals with the pedal support, the pushrods, etc. Make SURE you get the pedal support, as the 71-3 cars had a seperate bore for the clutch pedal, and aluminum mounts for the pedal bushing that are not vailable anywhere else..

Good luck on the boneyard hunting, you may even be able to pick up a toploader. If not, call my friend Dave at Reed's, he sells rebuilt toploaders outright. Get yourself a list of all the parts you'll need, and don't start tearing anything apart 'til you've got everything. A factory shop manual with diagrams wouldn't hurt either.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
HemiKiller:

What all will I need for this swap. What is a wrecking yard part? Thanks a lot. I got my brothers involved now.

Thanks a lot!

Jeff Given
 

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Jeff:

Here's a breakdown of what you'll need:

Toploader : any model wide ratio, 1 1/16 input, 28 or 31 spine output will work fine, 24" length, Mustang style with shifter at extreme rear of tailhousing. If you get a 28 spline, you'll need a new front yoke for the driveshaft.


Since you have a C-6, you will need a longer driveshaft. You can get one from any Mustang 71-73 with the 9" and an FMX or toploader trans.

Shifter (see above posts)

Clutch/Brake pedal and support assembly.

Pedal to Z-bar (equalizer) rod

Dust boot for above rod: see above posts

Z-bar (equalizer)

Frame side mount w/bolts

Frame side pivot bushing: Repro, any Mustang shop

Engine side mount. This utilizes a replaceable nylon pivot ball, clip, seal: repro any Mustang shop.

Z-bar to clutch fork adj pushrod. Repro or Ford.

Clutch Fork (any 71-73 6cyl, 302 or 351)

Bellhousing. see above posts

Block plate. see above....

Clutch fork dust boot. repro, any Mustang shop

Flywheel: see above posts

Starter: see above posts

Clutch disc/pressure plate assy

Throw out bearing: anywhere

Pilot bearing; get the one for an 80's Mustang GT, as they are roller bearings, and miles ahead in shifting versus a bronze bushing.

Shifter boot etc etc etc


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hemikiller on 4/13/02 10:44pm ]</font>
 

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The easiest way to get the countershaft installed (at least for a toploader) is to make a trip to the local hardware store and purchase a hardwood dowell rod. Simply cut to length, and install the loose bearings with thick grease to hold them in place. Then, as the 'real' shaft is tapped into place, the wooden one slides out the other end. I believe 7/8" is the right diameter for a toploader.

Machining a metal dummy shaft sounds like a PITA.

Just a little 'tidbit' for future reference, and up-and-coming 4-speed rebuilders.

Toploaders can be a pain. The front and rear 'main' bearings require a special tool to remove. I spin the input and output shafts in a large drill press (or lathe) and sand them down with emery cloth to a gentle press fit (upon rebuilding) so they will come apart by hand the next time the transmission needs serviced.

The internal shift linkage and detents can also be a puzzle until you get used to it.

To rebuild a toploader... (from memory)

1. Drop cluster gear
2. remove front and rear bearings
3. remove internal shift linkage
4. remove remove main shaft
5. remove input shaft
6. install new parts on main shaft
7. lay cluster w/dummy shaft in bottom of case
8. install shift levers
9. install main shaft
10. install input
11. Raise cluster and install real shaft (carefully!)
12. install linkage
13. install cover.

This is a VERY abbreviated procedure... Refer to a real manual for all the little details.

Good Luck!
 

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Hey MightyMach,
I just did the four-speed conversion on my ’72 Mach 1 at the end of last year so if you have any questions or if you get stuck, feel free to e-mail me with any questions that you have. I didn’t rebuild my own transmission though so for that one I think it is better to stick with someone whos experienced at that or the guys at 4speedtoploaders.com.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Otto, where are you from in So Cal? How hard was the job? Approx. what was the cost? What Trans did you have? What motor? Thanks a lot!

Thanks a lot!

Jeff Given
 

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Jeff, If you select the late 70's 302-351 truck clutch you will be pleased, we use that in our 1965 302 with Toploader, be advised that the diaphram style clutch needs MORE travel than the stock "Long" style clutch (those are the ones with three "fingers" ) so some modification is req'd on the "z" bar for more travel, I welded more to the bar and drilled a new hole about 1 inch away from the original hole in the lower part of the Z bar. Best Wishes!
 

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I live in Los Angeles. The job itself was easy as long as you have all the parts. The whole thing will probably take about 20 man hours. This is what it took me doing it by myself. I got most of my parts from Perogie because finding them will take a long time unless you can score a complete four speed car. Because of this the cost was rather high. I would say about 2,100, but keep in mind I was dealing with Perogie so the cost is high but the quality is good. I changed it to a four speed from an FMX. The engine is a 351 Cleveland. If you need I can write a detailed process of what I did step by step over the weekend.
 

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What I basically did was look in the manual and see how to remove the auto trans, and then how to install the manual. There were a lot of things that they don’t tell you.
I started inside the car by changing the support bracket. Since I was going to disconnect the brake booster I also changed this while I was at it. There are four bolts that connect the booster and bracket to the firewall, four that connect the bracket to the steering wheel column and one bolt that is a lot of trouble to get to right behind the gauges. To get to this one I had to take off the dash board and gauges. As you do this leave the speedometer cable off. I had some trouble fitting the new bracket to the bolt holes because the alignment was slightly off. I connected the four firewall bolts first then the one bolt behind the gauges. As you tighten this one it will re-align everything. After this install your steering column.
Assuming the bracket already has the pedals you can now move on to taking off the auto trans. After draining the oil from the auto trans disconnect the cooler lines from the radiator and from the trans. As the tranny finishes draining you can remove the driveshaft and put it aside. Next disconnect the torque converter by taking off the cover and disconnecting the four bolts that hold it onto the flexplate. To make it a little easier put the trans in neutral so you can turn the flexplate to get to the bolts, and put the trans in park when taking off the bolts.
Remove the shifter lever and linkage. Keep the rod that locks the steering wheel because you will need it for the manual. Disconnect you exhaust and parking brake to allow you easy removal of the trans. Now you can remove the transmission mount and begin removing the transmission itself. Start taking the bolts off from the bottom making sure that the transmission is supported by either a tranny jack or however you are going to take it off.
Once the transmission is off remove the flexplate using an impact wrench. Now you are done taking off the auto system. Next install the flywheel that you are going to use. Once this is done put the pilot bushing in. If you use a brass bushing make sure you use a socket or other tool to hammer it in because if you hit the inner part of the bushing you will close the hole. I was having problems with this because the clutch alignment tool wouldn’t fit into the bushing and I figured I didn’t hit hard enough to close the hole. Turns out I was wrong, but not only that the alignment tool was off to. I bought a new bushing and used a different alignment tool than the one that came with the clutch.
After these things are on you can now put the clutch onto the flywheel. I cleaned the flywheel with brake cleaner before I put on my clutch just to make sure it was fairly clean. Once the clutch is on you can begin to put on the bell housing after putting on the fork and throwout bearing. As you do this install the side z-bar bracket. This goes on right beside the steering gear box and is attached by three bolts. I had trouble finding it because the holes were filled with dirt and other crap. Once this bracket is on you can finish putting on the bell housing attaching the other z-bar bracket that goes on the bell housing along with the z-bar itself.
Once this things are on you can now connect the rod from the clutch rod to z-bar. Make sure you don’t depress the clutch pedal after these things are on. Now you can install the transmission itself along with the mount. After this comes the shifter and shifter linkage. When I installed the shifter I didn’t have any forward gears. After some head scratching I found out one of the rods was bent about 2 degrees and would leave the tranny with reverse slightly engaged. I bent to rod just a bit to fix this. Align the shifter, and fill the transmission with the proper gear fluid.
I would suggest double checking everything before finishing up the rest. Proper clutch pedal function, good shifts and everything is torqued to specs. Now you can reinstall you driveshaft, exhaust and parking brake cable. You might have some trouble finding the backup light switch and wiring. I would suggest Perogie. Even though they are expensive, they have what you want. After putting on the new speedometer cable you should be done. Be very careful when trying it out. If everything was done correctly you now have a 4 speed Mach 1. If I left anything out I’m sure the other guys will fill you in.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well damn. Where should I start?

So far, I have bought the following:

*Z Bar
*Both Z bar brackets
*Top Loader
*Dust boot for the clutch Rod

What I need, and is seemingly impossible to get:


*Both Clutch Rods
*Clutch Fork
*A damned clutch pedal! I was mis-directed by the local mustang place here in So Cal and they told me a 1970 Clutch assembly will work--they lied

*Clutch Fork dust boot

What I need to go to a local wrecking yard for (or dads friends wrecking yard):

*Bellhousing
*Flywheel
*Drive shaft

Things to get from Summit, or Jegs:

*Hurst Competition plus Shifter
*Some dual friction clutch ??


A question now is:
Will any old clutch PEDAL work in my 73 mach 1, or does it have to be from 71-73?

If anyone has any of these parts, and is interested in selling, please let me know!

Thanks a lot!

JG
 

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Jeff, glad to see you are well on your way to a 4-speed car.

You can get the lower rod from Z-bar to the fork for just about any Mustang. Is is just a rod about 6" long, threaded about 80%, with two nuts to lock the adjustment. Any Mustang place should carry it.

The fork is a C8AA #, and is available as a repro from Mustangs Unlimited.

The fork boot is available repro as well, same place, or NPD.

Get some new pedal pads, finishes the job...

Don't forget the Z-bar to frame and z-bar to clutch fork springs. Available repro as well...

You will need a 71-73 pedal support, pedal, over-center spring, and the spring bracket. You will have to remove your existing pedal support and install the replacement. There is a bushin on each side of the pedal support that is only installed if you have amanual tranny. You WILL NOT be able to find it aftermarket or NOS, as it is integral to the pedal support. You might be able to use the roller bearing clutch pedal supports from www.mustangsteve.com but getting the correct support should be easier. They are available on eBay all the time. Don't worry if the brake pedal is manual and yours is power brakes, because you can use yours, just trim it down to the same width.

I have an extra pedal to z-bar rod that I'd rather not sell, but if you are totally stuck, I could be persuaded....

Try wild west mustang ranch if nothing else, their prices are alot better than Per-ripoff-ogie!!

Oh, and don't forget to buy ALL NEW bushings and seals for the Z-bar. You will regret it if you don't! Do not get cheap here!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
This is a what I have bought as far as the linkages go:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1841366760&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1840906175&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1840909908&rd=1

(did buy the other bracket from this guy--I believe they have new bushings?? Still have not recieved

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1844585174&rd=1

Look at both the Z bars...they look like they both have something different. MonsterMach said it MAY BE both clutch rods...one has one, the other has the other.
What do you think?

Nice to know that I can get the Fork, and the boot
Also, I may have scored a 6 cylinder 71 manual at the wrecking yard...will know more tonight!

Please tell me what I have!

Thanks a lot!
Jeff Given

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Jeff Given
Sacramento State, Home Town Corona, CA



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MightyMach on 7/25/02 6:31am ]</font>
 

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Looks like you have two complete z-bars, a frame side and an engine side mount, the pedal to z-bar rod, and some sort of z-bar to fork rod that looks like it's a foot long. The boot is not the correct one, but can be made to work. The original was integral to the firewall seal for the steering column.

If that score on the 71 6cyl comes through, let me know, I may be interested in some of your "extras". You can use the fork from the 6 cyl, they are the same from 250 up to the 351. but the bell will be too small as they had a 157 tooth flywheel, and the flywheel will not work on a 351.
 
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