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Discussion Starter #41
Thanks Putts I wish I would have read your #3 before ordering a new thermo choke with the premium rebuild kit from Mike's. But I will order one within the week. So I soaked the carb in penetrating oil for two days scrubbed what gunk I could get off with a toothbrush and disassembled it. So about the cleaning process I work in a machine shop, and we have ultra sonic tanks with 160° lenium (which is safe for aluminum) I wonder if that would work for getting the hard to reach spots. Also while I had the carb at work, would there be any benefit to resurfacing the gasket surfaces to true them up a bit? And extech my shop manual just came in(wow tons of info). You had mentioned earlier about a nylon pin. I am looking at everything in front of me that came out of the carb and there are no nylon pins. Could that not being in the carb have something to do with the secondaries virtually being rusted shut? Thank in advance all.

Jeff
 

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yea. that pin is not part of the kit. you may have to do some fab work- not complicated. don't think it being missing has anything to do with the corrosion. more than likely the seconderies just weren't used(granny)
the sonic tanks should do great
 

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Seems like every rebuild kit has something missing. Like the secondary diaphragm. Some if the fixes are not in the book. A proper fitting secondary knockout pin is missing in all kits, you might have to fab one like extec says. And your accelerator lever cover probably is warped and you might need double gaskets on the power valve cover and the accelerator squirter hollow bolt... lots to do yet!
 

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The nylon pins are available on ebay: Autolite 4100 Carburetor Secondary Stop Pin 1957-1969 Ford | eBay

Also, don't totally dismiss the thermostatic choke. They are actually quite an elegant design, and work great when properly adjusted. The biggest issue is getting the piston to move freely in the housing, and you would be best to remove the Welch plug from the bottom of the choke housing to clean the bore out. The shop manual outlines the procedure for setting them up, though it isn't the most clear on the correct order of things. You have to start with the adjustment of the choke plate clearance by using a wire gauge (bent paper clip) in the slot between the choke piston and the housing toward the front of the carb. The shop manual shows the diagram of what to do. A paper clip and a 1/8" drill bit can be a good stand-in for the gauge tools they show. The 1/8" drill bit goes between the choke plate and the air horn casting at the front and you adjust the plastic nut on the top of the choke/fast idle linkage to get the clearance at the front of the choke plate to 1/8" (give or take a few 64ths). You have to do this while pulling the choke piston up until it stops against the wire gauge. After that is adjusted, you set the fast idle with the metal set screw that passes through the plastic bracket/swivel to have the fast idle screw hit the arrow marker of the cam when the choke is at that position (1/8" pull down). Then if you set your choke to just fully close at the given ambient temperature, the operation should be that when you first pump the gas pedal the choke should fully close and prime the intake with fuel plus set the fast idle screw on the highest step of the cam. It should stay there during start up and give you a fast idle, then when you goose the throttle it will drop to the 2nd stop to slow it down a bit (this is the piston moving to the position you set with the paper clip). Then it will fully open via the spring relaxing with the engine operating temp reaching full. The heater hose bracket on the choke spring housing helps that, and the metal choke tubes to the exhaust manifold pull hot air into the housing to speed that process up. The choke stove in the manifold is also rebuildable, and should be for ideal operation. A drop of machine oil on all the moving parts is a good idea to keep them moving as they should. This also goes for the brass and felt washers that need to slide back and forth for the choke plate to close.

Hopefully that's clear as mud, and by the way, your cleaning strategy with the ultrasonic sounds like a good one. I think that should work very well!
 

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The corrosion you found is from Ethanol gas sitting in the car for an extended time your fuel lines and fuel tank will also have a ton of that crap in them some radiator shops can boil out the tank but you should replace all the fuel lines or you will pump that gunk right into the rebuilt carb. Google "ethanol damage" and click on Images to see what that stuff does,I hope you can save the carb. After you get things cleaned out use this https://www.lowes.com/pd/STAR-TRON-8-oz-Fuel-Additive/3329684 if the car won't be driven much.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Thanks bullet, I will look into that once I get everything put back together. So Jeffb2 mentioned the corrosion I was seeing is caused by ethanol in the fuel. So I looked into the top of the intake manifold through the 4 ports and could see the same type of corrosion. Is this a make or break deal for this motor, any suggestions where to go from here? Should I look into the motor a little deeper (pull valve covers, pull the manifold) or once the carb is rebuilt just slap it on re-tune and and try and turn her over. Sorry for all the questions just don't want to go much further with finding out if its worth it with this motor. Thanks again in advance.

Jeff
 

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It wouldn't hurt to pull the valve covers to see where you are at. People used to run non-detergent oil which made a solid layer of sludge in the valve covers. I'd want to scrape as much of that out as I could, but others may have different/better advice re. leaving it alone, etc. If it isn't terrible, you can drain the oil a quart, add a quart of kerosene or thin additive of your choice, start it and let it idle (NOT drive/rev) for 10-15 minutes, then drain the whole thing and refill with good oil.

For valve cover gaskets I use rubber with yellow 3M adhesive to attach to the valve covers, then a thin layer of grease on the head sides. Don't tighten them too tight (bends the covers) and you can take them off and on several times.

Pat
 

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Don't go pulling manifolds or doing anything that will not help you find out if you have a DOA situation - like a busted crank or transmission or rotted out brake or exhaust system. Now you don't want to do something stupid like running with water in the oil but you shouldn't spend good money if it is not leading you to an answer.
Like why buy an ignition switch or NSS when you can bypass them for now? If you have bad gas, why spend the money and time to pull out the fuel tank when you can just as well connect the fuel pump with a hose to a two gallon jug of new gas? What good is rebuilding the secondaries when you can't even get it to idle in the driveway?
Now this is just me talking, everybody operates at their own speed but IMO you should find out as quickly and as cheaply as possible if you have a piece of crap or not.
 
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why use the 8001 yellow when 8008 black is the same stuff but looks better
Ha, didn't know it existed. Or what the number was of the yellow, for that matter. Thanks.

To Reaper 63: This is just how I do valve covers. There's a lot of others that prefer cork or do it a different way, like using RTV to attach the gaskets to the covers. I agree about not pulling the intake yet, but your method of working on one system at a time (the engine in this case) seems sound. It was obvious the carb should be rebuilt before it's going to run reliably so I think that was money well spent. Valve cover gaskets aren't too expensive and given the state of the battery cables, solenoid wiring and carburetor, it doesn't seem like the previous owner held maintenance in high regard. I'd pull them at some time to see what I was dealing with.

Pat
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Well folks this will just be another lesson learned. While waiting for the rebuild kit to come i finally got the car up on stands and gave the under belly a good look. And to my complete surprise the former owner did some less than optimal patch work on the frame with what I assume is body filler. I have now exposed a baseball sized hole in the frame right under the passenger door and what I believe is a deal breaker, almost the entire frame rail under the drivers door is rotted through, not much sturdy metal left. Any ideas? Probably going to have to look for a frame I would assume. Such a bummer. I will keep pushing on getting it running just for the time being. Thanks for everything everyone. I will continue to update my progress.

Jeff
 

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Don't let yourself be distracted by that kind of thing. Get the motor running! Then let's worry about other problems.
 
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Yup - agree with Puttster - before spending any money that you don't have too, get the engine running first.
If I understand the situation correctly, you get power to the coil with the key on? With the key on the oil and gen/ign/batt light comes on, but nothing when you turn the key to start?

So, pull the two small wires off the solenoid, and get a piece of wire and have it long enough to reach from the +ive post on the battery to each of the small posts on the solenoid. By touching the wire onto each one of those two posts, you should be able figure out how adding power to one of the posts makes the engine turn over. It will not start, but you'll then know how to bypass the Neutral Safety Switch.

Return the wiring harness wire to the post on the solenoid that does NOT make the car crank over - you can then concentrate on turning the key, seeing the lights come on and use the piece of wire you've got touching the other post to crank the motor over as you try to start the car and getting a view of what's happening. Get a can of starting fluid - something like this, it should help you get the thing to start assuming there is gas in the carb:

In Australia we have this:
 

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Love the starting fluid can! So funny! That would surely offend someone here in the US and would have to be pulled from the market with a public apology to follow.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
So big update. I finished up the carburetor, still waiting for the small plastic fast idle arm, so I glue my old one back together. I didn't realize until after the order came in that I have the older stlye plastic fast idle arm not the one that was linked on page 2(I believe). With that being said plastic sucks! So originally I also had a broken secondary lock out pin, also plastic. I have worked in a cnc machine shop for the past 15 years and finally found something to turn my spare time into at work. So I remade about 20 of the secondary lock out pins out of 304S.S. if anyone would like one just let me know where to send it. I plan on making that fast idle arm out of 304S.S. I will update that as it comes. So back to the car, the frame is definitely not salvageable. But like puttster said earlier, don't let that stop you continuing to get it to run. So I took his wordt pushing through. Luckily my brother in law(big gear head) had stopped over and gave me a hand looking into the starting issue. He determined that the solenoid was the failure point. So we moved on. He inspected the cap and rotor and found the that the rotor was bent and destroyed, so I bought a new kit that comes with plug wires, a new distributor and a new coil. Then we did a compression test and 3 out 8 cylinders failed(less than 15% from the common average). So today I am thrilled to report I replaced the solenoid, and recharged the battery and gave the key a turn and BAMM! "she" started to turn over she started and then died, while it was running it didn't sound to good but it ran. So I will be installing the new kit when it comes in on Friday. I gapped and replaced all the plugs. So just an update on what has been going on and a big thank you to you all for the shared info that's got me to where I am today.

Stay vigilant,

Jeff H.
 

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so - 3 of the 8 cylinders were less than 15% less than the average compression count? If that's how low they are, I wouldn't worry too much just now. It's something to look into as you go forward but you should be able to get it running ok on all 8 if that's the only mechanical red-flag with the engine...
 

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Well done! if the car is trash, you could still get $500 for a running 390. Twice that if it's running well.
 
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