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Discussion Starter #1
Ok summer will be here before we know it, YAY. If going to be running this summer got to get a engine put together.

Car is 65 Comet 2dr hardtop. No ps, no pb. 4speed, Going with 4:11 9" rear, 28-29" dia rear tires.
Car is going to be a toy, Car cruises/shows, strip couple times a year, Flashlight drags, etc
Goal is Car needs to sound good and would like low 13's high 12's at track.
Also needs to look good under the hood.

Here is what I am thinking for my engine. This is not set in stone. but I think it will get me where I want to be.

331 CHP Pro Street short block, forged crank, pistons
AFR 185 heads with 58 cc Cylinder head volume should give it 10.4:1 compression
A question about the heads “heat crossover” not sure what it is or if I need it.

Lunati Voodoo Solid flat tappet cam. #61041,
Intake duration @050/advertised 241/276
Exhaust duration @050/advertised 249/282
Lift int/exh .554/.576
Lobe Sep 110
RPM range 2600-6800
The description of cam: High performance street/mild bracket
cam with good mid range to high end
torque and HP. Needs 3000 RPM stall
converter, headers, 10.5:1+ compression
ratio and 3.73-3.90 gearing. Lopey idle.

Intake and carbs Edelbrock F-28 Dual Quad Intake with 2 Edelbrock Performer, 500 cfm carbs Summit has a package intake, carbs, Air cleaner, gaskets, linkage, etc

Dougs Tri-Y headers, Exhaust 2.5 whatever fits with probably MagnaFlow mufflers For dist was thinking PerTronix III. I read it has built in rev limiter??

what you all think. will this get me 400hp at flywheel? high 12's low 13's if I can get it to hook?
 

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Short answer is most likely yes and then some

Nice to see someone using a SFT cam for a change...albeit a somewhat big one, but I like it. I don't know much about that dual quad manifold and how well it will work in the high rpm ranges, but if it does, it should run well.

I'm curious, what made you consider that cam?

I have a friend that has a 289 with a slightly larger SFT cam (Comp 294S) and dual quad holley manifold and Dougs headers (i've got them too :tup:) and ported stock heads with oversize valves and that little 289 runs really good with a 4 sp toploader behind it in the tune of 340 HP at the wheels!
 

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A 347 will make MORE power every where, for the same money. Why bother with the 331 ?????


JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
 

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Your build sounds good for what your expactations are but as Joe say's "Why a 331 over a 347?

One other comment; I'm not sure that you're going to fit a 28-29" tire in that car. I realize that the Falcon and Comet are not exactly the same car but there is no way that tall of a tire would fit in my Falcon. I'm running 295/50-15's and they're about 26" tall and after extensive mini-tubbing and other modifications they bairly fit. I'm not talking about width since as I said it's been tubbed, has a narrowed rearend, etc., but about tire height and fender clearances.

Check out the photos in my "Garage" section and you'll see what I'm talking about. Unless the Comet fender opening and wheel tub is much larger in radius you're probably going to fit 26" or smaller height tires. The photo in the last section "Wheel and Tires" shows it best.

Just thought I'd mention it. Have fun!

John
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Short answer is most likely yes and then some

Nice to see someone using a SFT cam for a change...albeit a somewhat big one, but I like it. I don't know much about that dual quad manifold and how well it will work in the high rpm ranges, but if it does, it should run well.
Yea not sure about the dual quads but build is going to be more of a cruise/show car than drag car and the dual quads just look cool on old car, the rpm range is 1500-6500 Car Craft did a test on Ford Racing crate engine with the dual quad and other intake/carb setups, The dual quad setup was 16hp lower than the best setup.
Crate Eight! Dual-Quad Ford 302- Car Craft Magazine

I'm curious, what made you consider that cam?
Searched and read bunch of threads on cams. Most talked about Comp Cams, but a few mentioned Lunati and they seemed happy with their choice. Asked a buddy what he heard about them he said he had a Lunati cam in one of his cars and he really liked it. So I looked at their site found one that the description matched what I was going for, and gave them a call..

Although at first I was actualy looking at Comp 285B-6 SFT cam.
[email protected] Int-250 Exh-260, Advertised Int-285 Exh-295, Valve Lift Int-568 Exh-592 Lobe sep 106

But heads have max lift of .600? and I thought it might be to close to max??
Still going to call Comp Cams before I buy.

I have a friend that has a 289 with a slightly larger SFT cam (Comp 294S) and dual quad holley manifold and Dougs headers (i've got them too :tup:) and ported stock heads with oversize valves and that little 289 runs really good with a 4 sp toploader behind it in the tune of 340 HP at the wheels!
Sounds like a fun car. I do still have my 289, if my budget goes away I will use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
A 347 will make MORE power every where, for the same money. Why bother with the 331 ?????


JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
Well was on the fence for long time between the 331 and 347. The piston ring thing and rod ratio were my concerns and they pretty much went away after discussing on boards and such. But they never completly went away KWIM? I'm not the luckiest person.
Was looking at 331's and 347 build, car info, and stuff on the boards. And noticed they were similer in HP. But how to compare builds, They are all different, Went to CHP's site. they have complete turnkey engines with estimated HP and Torque.
The 331 and 347 have exact same carb, intake, cam, heads, exc.)
Both with flat tops So only difference is bore and stroke. and the 347 had a little bit more compression. The 331 is estimated at 415 Hp and 410 torque. The 347 was estimated at 421 Hp and 416 torque.

I figured for the small HP lost I will never be worried about the rod ratio piston ring thing. And feel more comfortable beating on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Your build sounds good for what your expactations are but as Joe say's "Why a 331 over a 347?

One other comment; I'm not sure that you're going to fit a 28-29" tire in that car. I realize that the Falcon and Comet are not exactly the same car but there is no way that tall of a tire would fit in my Falcon. I'm running 295/50-15's and they're about 26" tall and after extensive mini-tubbing and other modifications they bairly fit. I'm not talking about width since as I said it's been tubbed, has a narrowed rearend, etc., but about tire height and fender clearances.

Check out the photos in my "Garage" section and you'll see what I'm talking about. Unless the Comet fender opening and wheel tub is much larger in radius you're probably going to fit 26" or smaller height tires. The photo in the last section "Wheel and Tires" shows it best.

Just thought I'd mention it. Have fun!

John
Oh no your right,Comet and Falcon are pretty much the same on tire clearance. I had a 25.something" Dia tires on it before I took car apart. And there was like 1/2" of clearance from front of tire rubbing the rocker/qtr. After I get done with my frame rails I am going to stretch the Wheel opening's foward 2.5 - 3 inch's. Yea 26" pretty much the limit stock.

Lou
 

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The 347 piston pin/ring is an NON ISSUE on well built short blocks.
Don't buy a cheap 347 on Ebay.. If it come from CHP or Fordstroker, you may think about it :)
Don't compare peak power between 331 and 347, there will be gains all over the curve. Theses little gains will make one faster than the other.
 

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Although at first I was actualy looking at Comp 285B-6 SFT cam.
[email protected] Int-250 Exh-260, Advertised Int-285 Exh-295, Valve Lift Int-568 Exh-592 Lobe sep 106
That's a drag race cam. Your certianly not shy about your cam choices. :)

Comp makes Extreme Energy SFT cams that are more modern and aggressive than the Magnum cams like the 282S that I have (which I love by the way). They are in the same family as the XE hydraulic cams but their solid lobes. They are special order, but so what.
 

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I have that cam in my 347. It's a really nice cam. I'm very happy with it.

10.25:1 compression, Edel. RPM air gap, holley 750, AFR 185 heads, long tube headers.

338 HP at the rear wheels; so probably about 430 at the crank.

Car runs 11.78 at 115mph.

I did have 1 issue, but not significant. The first one I ordered from Lunati was retarded by 4 degrees. I got a second one and it was retarded 2 degrees in the same motor. I kept the 2 degree version and it runs fine both at the strip and on the street. Idle is a little bumpy, but not bad and it sounds great.

PS: I'd go with the 347 as well.

Good luck with your build.
 

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SCAT sells ONE 331 crank to every 50 347 cranks===What doses that tell you ??


JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
That 331s blow up 50 times less than 347s...LOL ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The 347 piston pin/ring is an NON ISSUE on well built short blocks.
Don't buy a cheap 347 on Ebay.. If it come from CHP or Fordstroker, you may think about it :)
Don't compare peak power between 331 and 347, there will be gains all over the curve. Theses little gains will make one faster than the other.

No not buying e-bay. 98% sure I'm going CHP, Yea I realize gains will be throughout the rpm range. But how much? Would 347 just be 6-15Hp ahead of the 331 throughout the range or would there be 25-40 hp difference somewhere in the curve? Same cam, heads, carb, etc.

Lou
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That's a drag race cam. Your certianly not shy about your cam choices. :)
LOL Yea i guess it is. Cam quest had it listed as pro-street/mild race. But looked at comp site and they have it listed under race.

Comp makes Extreme Energy SFT cams that are more modern and aggressive than the Magnum cams like the 282S that I have (which I love by the way). They are in the same family as the XE hydraulic cams but their solid lobes. They are special order, but so what.
Ok so I could find a XE hyd cam with the profile/specs I want and have it special ordered a Solid?

Your friends 289 with the 294s does it sound good? Idle rough? Was looking at that cam tonight. Single pattern. The lunati I am looking at is dual pattern. I looked around on internet to see difference's (I always thought fords did better with dual pattern) But found this.
More exhaust duration is good for:
1) weak flowing exhaust port (less than 70% of intake port)
2) stock exhaust manifolds and/or restrictive exhaust system
3) heavy car with a small engine, like 4500 lb truck with a 350.
4) cars with automatic transmissions
5) N20 or supercharger equipped engines

If this is true maybe a single pattern? Is the 289 in a street car?

Thanks
Lou
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have that cam in my 347. It's a really nice cam. I'm very happy with it.

10.25:1 compression, Edel. RPM air gap, holley 750, AFR 185 heads, long tube headers.

338 HP at the rear wheels; so probably about 430 at the crank.

Car runs 11.78 at 115mph.

I did have 1 issue, but not significant. The first one I ordered from Lunati was retarded by 4 degrees. I got a second one and it was retarded 2 degrees in the same motor. I kept the 2 degree version and it runs fine both at the strip and on the street. Idle is a little bumpy, but not bad and it sounds great.

PS: I'd go with the 347 as well.

Good luck with your build.
Wow, thats quick. You running cal tracs? or slicks?? Car looks good like the Keystone Classics
 

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Discussion Starter #16
SCAT sells ONE 331 crank to every 50 347 cranks===What doses that tell you ??


JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
Few things

347 and 331 basiclly same price one has more cubes, = more HP
Also we live in USA bigger is better, going bigger for same price = no-brainer.

But what if you can achieve your goal without going bigger? ya still go?

The ring thing is not a problem, and the rod ratio no big deal. But looking for something that will go 6500rpm maybe little more. does the rod ratio become more a issue at higher rpms? probably not? I just feel more comfortable with going 331 and feel I can still meet my goals.

1 in 50 ? mine will be rarer then? :)
 

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LOL Yea i guess it is. Cam quest had it listed as pro-street/mild race. But looked at comp site and they have it listed under race.



Ok so I could find a XE hyd cam with the profile/specs I want and have it special ordered a Solid?

Go to Comps web site and download the Master Lobe Catalog here:

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Catalogs/LC2007/2007LobeCatalog.pdf

On page 20, you'll find the XE solid lobes. My 282S cam has the Magnum 6002 lobe on both intake and exhaust. The 6055 is an XE lobe with the same duration at .050 as the 6002 lobe but it has more duration at .200. The 6056 and 6057s are bigger lobes if you want bigger. Keep in mind that my 282S with self ported '70 351w heads in a 331 is good for 360 rear wheel HP (430 at the flywheel), peak HP at 6500 and usable power to 7000 RPM. You have better heads.

Your friends 289 with the 294s does it sound good? Idle rough? Was looking at that cam tonight. Single pattern. The lunati I am looking at is dual pattern. I looked around on internet to see difference's (I always thought fords did better with dual pattern) But found this.
More exhaust duration is good for:
1) weak flowing exhaust port (less than 70% of intake port)
2) stock exhaust manifolds and/or restrictive exhaust system
3) heavy car with a small engine, like 4500 lb truck with a 350.
4) cars with automatic transmissions
5) N20 or supercharger equipped engines

If this is true maybe a single pattern? Is the 289 in a street car?

The 289 is in a street car. It idles rough. He has no problem driving it on the street. The dual plane design and shorter runners of a dual quad may play a part in this. Dual plane helps low/mid while shorter runners help high. You basically have one carb barrel feeding each cylinder at WOT. Longer exhaust duration will help poor exhaust ports (which you don't have) and to raise peak HP RPM

Thanks
Lou
See above
 

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Few things

347 and 331 basiclly same price one has more cubes, = more HP
Also we live in USA bigger is better, going bigger for same price = no-brainer.

But what if you can achieve your goal without going bigger? ya still go?

The ring thing is not a problem, and the rod ratio no big deal. But looking for something that will go 6500rpm maybe little more. does the rod ratio become more a issue at higher rpms? probably not? I just feel more comfortable with going 331 and feel I can still meet my goals.

1 in 50 ? mine will be rarer then? :)
Forgot to mention don't worry about rod ratio. Shorter rod ratio is not all bad...it has advantages and disavantages. My 331 is custom designed 10 years ago by myself where I used a 289 5.155 aftermarket rod and 383W pistons. The rod / stroke ratio is the same as a 5.4 rod 347
 

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Wow, thats quick. You running cal tracs? or slicks?? Car looks good like the Keystone Classics
Both. Cal tracs, Hooiser QTPs, QA-1 adjustable shocks rear, Calvert 90/10 shocks front, mustang 6-cyl springs front.

That picture was taken before those mods.

Oh, and yes, Keystone classics. But I have the slicks mounted on Weld wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
See above
Thanks for the info, E-mailed Comp cams and also called them they recommended the 282S in the e-mail and recommended the 294S on the phone. Not sure what to pick now, lol. With the AFR's I"m not sure I will need the dual pattern like Lunati suggested I will probably call AFR next, then make a call to CHP.

Thanks for the help
Lou
 
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