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Dyno numbers for my 331. DTS 4000 corrected. I live at 5300 ft altitude. Not happy about the results...yet. Torque came in real early.
 

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The build is as follows:

Block- 86 5.0 H.O. bore 4.030

Crank- is a forged Scat, 3.250 stroke.

Rods- are Probe H beams.

Pistons & Rings- are Mahle flat tops (2 valve relief), deck clearance is .000, calculated CR is 10:5 to 1.

Melling- oil pump, stock pressure and volume.

Canton- oil pan 6 quart T pan.

Cam-Lunati Hyd roller with Lunati link bar lifters. Part Number: 20350711
Cam Specs, Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .549/.565. Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 221/229, LSA 112. (Inglese recommends cam not be under 110 LSA because of intake reversion issues)

Heads-Trick Flow 58 cc, 185 with CNC porting. Head Gaskets- Cometic MLS .040

Rockers-Comp Gold 1.6 ratio

Push Rods-Comp custom length

Intake- Weber Red Line port matched to the heads by Wes King.

Carbs- 4 Weber 48mm IDF with 40 or 36mm venturi’s. Tried both. Jetted several times with different tubes and main jets.

MSD Distributor, full mechanical advance with 8.5mm wires, all new. We played with the curve a little, no change. Total timing is at 33 where it ran the best.

This is an engine for my street driven Fairlane, 91 Octane Pump Gas.


Thanks
 

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Nothing wrong with those numbers looking at your set up. You want more power change your Cam, Intake and carbs. You would make more power with the AirGap intake and a holley 4150 street HP 750 and a better cam. But those webers are cool
 

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Webers looks very cool, yes but :
-They are hard to jet correctly
-They need to be checked often
-They can cause very lean conditions that blows pistons (a lot of 60's europeans V8 were made with this sort of induction, pistons blowed by detonations were a common thing with unprofessionnal users...)
-Now they are always outperformed by goods 4 barrels single holleys.
 

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I agree with your points Teyerdhal, I've never been one to do the easy thing and these carbs are a challenge thats for sure.
!I have a Victor Jr. and Holley carb that we are going to install next week and run. Right now the engine is off of the dyno so they can run other engines while we look for issues. Also I'm going to leak the engine down to make sure the rings seated.
Thanks for your help.

BTW, I'm not giving up on the Webers!
 

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I agree with your points Teyerdhal, I've never been one to do the easy thing and these carbs are a challenge thats for sure.
!I have a Victor Jr. and Holley carb that we are going to install next week and run. Right now the engine is off of the dyno so they can run other engines while we look for issues. Also I'm going to leak the engine down to make sure the rings seated.
Thanks for your help.

BTW, I'm not giving up on the Webers!
While you may end up with better numbers with the Victor You do not have enough cam to utilze it's potential.it is also a poor choice for a street driven car. You will make better numbers with the Air Gap, Performer RPM or Stealth intake and a good Holley Carb. It will crush the Victor in Torque and be right with it in Horsepower and have better driveability.
 

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yeah, that setup should make more power. I think the induction setup is killing u. Those webers LOOK nice but dont look like theyre getting the job done too well.if dyno was at the rear wheels then i say youre not doing too bad
 

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Am I reading correctly that this is engine dyno numbers, not a chassis dyno (at the rear wheels)? If so I've got some bad news. I made more than that at the rear wheels and I wasn't hitting on all 8 at the time.

Making 331 HP out of a 331 cu. in. motor isn't necessarly bad but I'd say there's a lot left in it. Mine is similar in build specs so it's probably carb related if you ask me.

Good luck, let's see some photos of that ride!

John
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I can't get the video of the pulls clipped properly, but here are a couple of stills and a picture of the car. Typical 67 Fairlane Wimbleton White with a Ram Air Hood. But I like it.
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Nice car. Nice dyno setup. With EGTs on all 8, what was your fuel distribution like with the Webers? I see WBO2 also - how was your transition fueling? I'd think that would be the toughest part to tune around with short stacks.

Oh, and gotta love that turkey pan cold air duct. Nothing beats simple solutions. :tup:

David
 

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A good friend of mine ownes the dyno. The Dyno was set up in a stand alone buliding the cell inside, seperate from his machine shop. It is a first class setup, especially for our little po-dunk town.

Fuel distribution. Spent a lot of time getting the linkage dialed in using a 'Snail', this seems to be the most critical piece of the puzzle. After we got the carbs syncronized we moved on to the jetting and timing. We found the timing ran best at 33 full in. The jetting is another problem and I'm just now getting to where I understand most of the circuits...I think.

Cylinder temps are amazingly consistant once you get out of the idle circuit. Unlike a traditional single 4 bbl manifold, they are within a few degrees of each other so the distribution is very good. Still working on the uneven idle temp issues.

The one thing that is hurting the engine is it goes to a rich condition after idle. I have ordered more emulsion tubes, main jets, pump by-pass jets and air correctors.
If I can find that elusive combination to lean out the engine in the 2300 to 3600 rpm range I think it will pull much better.

When it is all said and done I will have over $400 in jets, tubes and correctors. Defiantly not cheap and probalby doesn't make sense to anyone but me. I'm starting to border on obsessed with these damn carbs. A love, hate relationship.

If I can't get it to run after this I may have to fly in Jim Inglese to straighten them out!

Kelly
 

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I understand. I've done some weird stuff - just because. You don't see many of these on the street for exactly the reasons you're outlining. That's part of what makes it special. BTW - consider if you do end-up changing cams, that will change your fueling in that transitional range under 3-4000 RPM. So, it's not a waste of time to tune it in now and again later, but it will be different. Although, by then I imagine you'll be the local expert on ITB carb tuning. LOL

David

BTW, I was in Farmington for a week on biz last year (documenting some truck modifications at the power plant coal facility), and although I don't expect to return anytime soon, if I do, I'll look you up for brews and burgers.
 

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Hey David, thanks for the encouragement.

Farmington is not exactly the garden spot of the universe but it grows on you after a while.We have a decent Brew Pub downtown, if you are ever back down let me know, we have a good sized car community here and a few are even Ford guys.

Kelly
 

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I think your a/f should be just the opposite of what it shows. It is too fat at idle and leans out too much at WOT. I would also try a better fuel and bump the timing up a couple. It may not be practical to run a performance fuel all the time but you are working on the dyno right now so it is interesting to see what the engine is really capable of.
 

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we built a 331 for a customers 65 shelby replica two years ago... bought webers from weber usa and ran 3 days on dyno before calling ingelese... sent them the intake carbs and 1200 bucks later they were redone with new booster sleeves ect... we were told we never would have gotten it as they are sent... afr heads and mild hydraulic roller went 415 hp at 5800 after that... redline sells webers for 2 grand and inglese for 3 grand... now i get it... linkage and low speed adjustment is everything on those... they redid that also ... they are a pain but man... nothin sounds as cool at 6 grand on the dyno... makes the hair on the back of the neck stand up.....
 

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we built a 331 for a customers 65 shelby replica two years ago... bought webers from weber usa and ran 3 days on dyno before calling ingelese... sent them the intake carbs and 1200 bucks later they were redone with new booster sleeves ect... we were told we never would have gotten it as they are sent... afr heads and mild hydraulic roller went 415 hp at 5800 after that... redline sells webers for 2 grand and inglese for 3 grand... now i get it... linkage and low speed adjustment is everything on those... they redid that also ... they are a pain but man... nothin sounds as cool at 6 grand on the dyno... makes the hair on the back of the neck stand up.....

ps... i foud the dyno sheets from the same motor with 750 ede thunder carb and performer air gap... 386 hp ... so 30 hp for the webers... they used to say 40 years ago... its not magic its that they are 2300 cfm total
 

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ps... i foud the dyno sheets from the same motor with 750 ede thunder carb and performer air gap... 386 hp ... so 30 hp for the webers... they used to say 40 years ago... its not magic its that they are 2300 cfm total
Edel carb vs Webers !!! A Holley and a good intake would get the same 30 hp. the Webers do have the wow and cool factor . 6K rpm is'nt a lot of rpm
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm staying away from custom fuel blends. Not practical on long trips.

I did some checking this last month. Did a cold leak down and all the cylinders were between 5% and 6% so It sealed up pretty good.

Checked my cam timing, it cam in at 3 1/2 advanced using the @0.50 method. Lunati recommends 4 advanced.

We are going back on the dyno in a week to try a another shot at the jetting. This time we have a older gentleman that used to work for Shelby in the 60's that is going to help us. Right away he spotted some problems with the jetting.

CWEISSER, Your right about buying Webers from Jim Inglese. You get what you pay for. I wanted to learn as much as I could about this setup the old school (most expensive) way. Probably not the smartest approach.

HOTTAROD, yep the AFR is way rich on the bottom, I'm hoping that I got that figured out. We were too lean on top a couple of times and got the yellow lights from the console.

The jetting on these carbs are unlike anything I've experinced before. Main jets, idle jets, pump jets, air corrector jets, emulsion tubes. It's like getting a symphony tuned up. When it's right it's wonderful to listen to.

Kelly
 
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