Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys i was wondering if any of you out there would have any idea if it is possible to make atleast 500 horsepower with a 351 and AFR 185's or Edelbrock Victor Jrs. I'll probably run a vic jr intake, and a 10.1 compression with long tube headers. The cam will most likely be a hydralic roller, but i dont' know what size it would be. Any help there? Oh and i'd like to limit the engine to 6500 rpm or less also. Thanks in advance guys.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,833 Posts
anything is possible just a matter of money. After 425 HP it's going to get a little tougher and streetability will go down. Maintenance will go up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,287 Posts
500hp @ 6500 out of a 351ci motor and 10:1 compression is a little bit of a stretch imo. You might be able to do it, but cost wise it's going to be counter productive unless you run a stroker. If you're planning a stroker, then go with the Victor Jr's, as they have the port volume (and cross section) required for a larget motor at that power level. Look into this months 5.0 and Super Fords magazine for a 500hp 419 small block build up. They did it with 11:1 compression however.

Hope this helps.

Cris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the input guys. Is 11:1 compression ratio even possible with aluminum heads and 91 octane pump gas??? Also does anyone have any opinons on a 393 stroker vs. a 408 stroker since it seems thats gonna be where i will need to go for the power while staying at the 6500 rpm limit. thanks again guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
I run 11.2 comp Flat tops with E-brock RPM's on 94 with no ping and I have run it on 92 but itll ping a little if i really lay on it (thats without turning back the timing) I drive it around all spring and summer so I'd say ya, its possible.
my guess is around 420 HP at the flywheel for my setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
I would look at a 408 with AFR 205cc heads. I think you can do 10:1 on premium pump gas. How much cam can you stand? You should easily be able to get 450 or more with a fairly streetable cam. For me, I would think a 235 @ .050 on 110 lda would be a good steetable cam for that motor.
Some guys ideas of streetable are more radical than mine however.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mpcoluv on 5/24/06 8:28pm ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,892 Posts
Look in the stroker and dyno section for 393 and 408 combos that will easily meet your goals. either 351 stroker will fairly easily make 500 hp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
It can be done very easily with off the shelf parts.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Freddie on 5/25/06 6:41am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Here is what Performance Trends software says.


Analysis Report for Street/Strip Engine with Desired HP Peak at 7500 RPM

Peak Tq =443. @ 5250 RPM 1.26 Ft Lbs per CuIn
Peak HP =503. @ 6750 RPM 1.43 HP per CuIn

Maximum Tq/CuIn is 1.259 Ft Lbs/CuIn.
This is somewhat high, indicating good performance, but will
produce high cylinder pressures and temperatures.


Maximum Exhaust System Backpressure 'Exh Pres' is .5 PSI.
This is typical for a street/strip vehicle with a free flowing,
full exhaust system. To simulate open headers, select the
'Open Headers' from the Exh System Type combo box.


Maximum Intake Manifold Vacuum 'Int Vacuum' is 1.6 ''Hg.
This is somewhat high and is limiting air flow and HP.


Maximum Fuel Flow 'Fuel Flow' is 293 lbs/hr GAS.
This is equal to 50.1 gallons per hour of fuel flow.
For an injected engine with one injector per cylinder, you will require
at least 37 lbs/hr injectors.


Mechanical Efficiency 'Mech Eff' is 74 %
at the current Peak HP RPM of 6750 RPM.
This is somewhat low and represents a real power loss in this
engine's current operating range. This can be improved by paying
close attention to details in the Short Block Specs menu.



The Maximum Average Piston Speed 'Piston Spd' is 4375 ft/min
at the Performance Calculations Maximum RPM of 7500 RPM.
This is EXTREMELY high (if you want to run this entire speed range),
requiring light, high strength reciprocating components.

A street/strip engine should limit Piston Spd to a range of 3000-4000
ft/min. However, even to run at 3000 ft/min or higher, you will need
'better than production', high quality reciprocating components
(connecting rods & bolts, pistons, etc.).

Maintaining low Piston Spd and Piston Gs are critical for 'keeping the
engine together'. OVER-REVVING PARTS BEYOND THEIR INTENDED LIMIT IS
UNSAFE FOR THE ENGINE, YOURSELF AND BYSTANDERS.


The Intake Runner Velocity 'Int AvgVel' is 358 ft/sec
at your 'Desired HP Peak RPM' 7500 RPM.
This is somewhat high and indicates you will need a larger Intake
Runner Diameter or larger Intake Port Diameter for less
restriction and stronger intake tuning.

For these engine specs, an 'Int AvgVel' of about 250 should work well.
If the 'Int AvgVel' is approximately 30-80 Ft/Sec higher than this,
you will likely improve torque below this RPM, but lose some HP.


The Inertia tuning of this intake is tuned to 6036 RPM,
which is somewhat lower than your 'Desired HP Peak RPM' of 7500 RPM.
This RPM is about where the torque peak should occur and should pro-
duce good peak torque. If you specify shorter and/or larger diameter
intake runners, you will likely gain Peak HP and lose some Peak Torque.


The Exhaust Runner Velocity 'Ex AvgVel' is 429 ft/sec
at your DESIRED HP PEAK RPM of 7500 RPM.
This is somewhat high and indicates you will need a larger Header
Primary Diameter for less restriction and stronger exhaust tuning.
Exhaust tuning is usually best with 300 ft/sec 'Ex AvgVel'.


At 3 different RPMs, Spark Advance 'Spark Adv' is retarded to avoid
detonation. Retarding Spark Adv does reduce performance, but allows this
engine to safely operate with this Octane fuel.


Estimated Idle Vacuum 'Est Idle Vac, ''Hg' is 7.2 ''Hg.
This is somewhat low, and will likely NOT idle well or provide
enough vacuum to run vacuum accessories for an engine which is used
occasionally on the street.

End of Analysis Report
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
The above was based on a 351ci with vic jr top end , 750 hp carb, hooker super comp 1 3/4 headers, 3" exhaust with hooker maxflow mufflers, cam specs 242/252 @.050 544 lift 110 LCA at 5* advance, 10.5 compression, crankcase evac system, running 92 octane.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Freddie on 5/25/06 6:42am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
the cheapest way to do it is forged pistons, a good igntion box and a plate kit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
Here was my combo: 358 cid. 10.1, Ported WP heads 275/200 CFM 553/571 244/252 @ .050 Victor Jr. Intake. Holley 750. The car was 3000# w/ 4.30 gears and a 4K converter. Notice how it "was" my combo!

The engine made 427 hp @ 6875 and 379ft lbs @4900. Even w/ the loose converter it was dog! With mild compression you can't get to wild with heads, cams, intakes etc. Go w/ some kind of forced induction if finances allow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks again for all the input guys, it is appreciated a lot. Unfortunately i don't have the money for forced induction and a good set of heads. So i figured i go with a good set of heads.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top