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Barnett I am not sure how to re-engage, your response is too emotional. If the op contacts me I will happily advise in detail or even build him one. Brent will likely offer the same. I will not do it for you, especially with your emotional response and limitations that are only marginally accurate for Dukes request. Sorry, this time, your free lesson won't come from me.
 

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Barnett I am not sure how to re-engage...
You are NOT supposed to "re-engage", you are supposed to "dis-engage" and STOP posting this type of garbage on other peoples threads as you have been asked THREE times now . . I'm quite sure that the op's of threads you continually do this on are NOT pleased when you do, and it would be common courtesy not to, however, you obviously lack respect and courtesy for others . . This is not intended as a personal attack or to hurt your feelings which I'm guessing it may, it is simply to mention something that might benefit you in your relations with others . . At the very least, it might help threads run smoother and keep a happier tone to them which I'm guessing everyone would be grateful for.



...your response is too emotional.
You and your buddy blykins have a greatly over inflated sense of self worth to assume that ANYTHING you say has ANY affect on my emotions at all . . In fact, I was literally LAUGHING my a_s off when I made my post just as I am right now making this one, therefore you grossly misinterpret my intention and "emotional" state, therefore I strongly suggest you quit making your feeble attempts to "psycho analyze" others and instead seek some therapy yourself, because you are obviously greatly in need of, it but I'm guessing you have heard that before.

I have gone through way too much in my life and and am WAY too old to let what ANYONE says have any affect on me whatsoever unless it is my family.

Since both you and blykins are NOT part of my family, and you are NOT friends of mine, neither of you have any significance in my life at all.

This means that you and he have absolutely no meaning or value to me, and if either of you were gone tomorrow, it would have absolutely zero affect on me, so my apologies to hurt your feelings like this, but unfortunately, that's simply the facts.



If the op contacts me I will happily advise in detail... I will not do it for you,
As far as your refusal to answer my questions, it is merely proof that your comments about my suggestions were absolutely wrong . . It also suggests that you have absolutely no idea how to build an engine to his specific requirements because there is no LOGICAL reason not to post your suggestion . . Building a 350 hp big block is not really a trade secret, lol.

The whole point of these forums is to SHARE information, not hoard it all to ones self, and for you to assume that people that read these posts are too ignorant to see the game you are playing is a mistake.



...or even build him one. Brent will likely offer the same.
This is not aN offer of generosity towards another fellow member of the forum, it is a blatant, outright solicitation for Dukes business so you can profit off of him and this forum.

You are nowhere near as crafty or intelligent as you have deluded yourself into believing you are.



Sorry, this time, your free lesson won't come from me.
Yet another incredibly pompous, arrogant comment . . The only thing you can teach anyone is how to be disrespectful, discourteous, childish, immature, pompous and arrogantl...oh and to ruin peoples threads, lol.
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BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC

Duke, keep in mind that your current engine probably only has around 250 hp according to some specs, so even if you bump it up to a modest 325 hp, that is still a 30% increase which isn't earth shattering but it is definitely substantial.

Also keep in mind that simply increasing your engine size from 352 to 420, is an increase of almost 20% in size.

With this in mind, it doesn't sound to me like you need to do very much at all to your engine to get it where you want it, and in FACT, if you leave your heads and cam completely stock but change the exhaust intake and carb it will not only still idle perfectly smooth, it may also meet your expectations.

Heck, even a GT 390 engine is rated at around 320 hp or so, and it has a fairly mild cam [slight lope], and I posted the cam number and place to buy it in a previous post.

A GT 390 with its POS intake manifold will roast the tires on a car as I mentioned and they do in FACT run fairly strong . . They are certainly not a cobra jet which in fact uses the exact same cam, but they might be enough to meet your needs, so if you consider that, and then only add more cubic inches, it would be a fairly big step up from what you currently have which is exactly the point these other guys are missing.


As far as gaining a significant amount of power by using the 4.125 crank and boring it to 4.080” vs 4.030”, the increase in size will be 10.51 ci, which is 2.49%.

If for the purposes of simplification I use a liner formula to calculate engine power, if your engine had 350 hp, with a 4.030” bore, it would have .831 hp per ci . . If I multiply that times the additional 10.51 ci, it gives you an increase in hp of a meager 8.738.

If you DOUBLE that number, and give it a generous increase of 16. 62 hp, which will only be near maximum rpm and NOT at 2000 rpm, you can determine if that amount of increase in hp is worth removing an additional .050” from the cylinders in your original block or if you will have far more peace of mind by only going to 4.030” instead.

4.030 bore = 420.93 ci
4.080 bore = 431.44 ci


NONE of this is the rocket science that others are making it out to be, lol.


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Here’s another 390 dyno test done the owner of Survival Motorsports Barry Robotnick

It has the same incredibly wimpy Comp Cams cam that I posted earlier which I said would give you the perfectly smooth idle you required and good bottom end power and throttle response, but it is smaller than I would use even for your modest app.

Unfortunately, it does not show the power levels at the lower rpm’s, however, if you call him and ask what they were, my guess is that he would still have them, and as was mentioned, he could also offer you suggestions for your app and may even recommend this same cam, because using it with the bigger 420 ci displacement, your engine would have even more torque and hp than this one if you had the same exhaust and a good intake, and it would be at a LOWER rpm.

This means that even if you deduct some power for the exhaust you will be using, you could feasible have a whopping 370 ft lbs of tq at maybe 3400 rpm BUT, it will still have a lot of tq even at IDLE, lol.

As I ,mentioned earlier, I have in fact used this exact cam many times in different engines . . I have also used the XE262H, XE268H and XE274, a well as a few others in FE builds for one treason or another, aand they all ran just fine and dandy.

This wimpy little cam also made peak hp at 5000 rpm, which by your description I doubt you will rarely, if ever, reach, so this is simply another example that you don’t need a "big" cam that will have a rough idle to reach your goals, and the 270H cam that was suggested earlier by others is a good cam, however, it would have a noticeably rougher idle than this one and is a BAD choice for your modest app and smooth idle requirement . . It would also have LESS power in the lower rpm range than the XE256H which is where you need it for your 18,000 lb car . . Again, none of this is rocket science and you don’t need any special parts or need to pay any "experts" to achieve your goal.

He even sells the wimpy XE256H cam and has it for $168.00 . . Below is the list of Comp cams he sells which can also be bought at Summit Racing with free delivery . . That same cam is only $137.00 at Summit as are most other Comp hydraulic non roller cams.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/brand/comp-cams/make/ford/engine-size/6-4l-390/engine-family/ford-big-block-fe/cam-style/hydraulic-flat-tappet/grind-number/fb-xe256h-10?N=4294891642%2B400114%2B4294951343%2B4294948007%2B4294948006%2B4294891085%2B4294888086

Hydraulic


Work phone 248-366-3309
Cell phone 248-931-0358

Box stock stock 390 tri power engine with original carbs
Compression ?
Wimpy comp XE256H cam
Headers
Tri Power
328 tq @ 5000 rpm
386 tq @ 3700 rpm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syaCusOF3eg
 

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Here’s another 390 dyno test done the owner of Survival Motorsports Barry Robotnick

It has the same incredibly wimpy Comp Cams cam that I posted earlier which I said would give you the perfectly smooth idle you required and good bottom end power and throttle response, but it is smaller than I would use even for your modest app.

Unfortunately, it does not show the power levels at the lower rpm’s, however, if you call him and ask what they were, my guess is that he would still have them, and as was mentioned, he could also offer you suggestions for your app and may even recommend this same cam, because using it with the bigger 420 ci displacement, your engine would have even more torque and hp than this one if you had the same exhaust and a good intake, and it would be at a LOWER rpm.

This means that even if you deduct some power for the exhaust you will be using, you could feasible have a whopping 370 ft lbs of tq at maybe 3400 rpm BUT, it will still have a lot of tq even at IDLE, lol.

As I ,mentioned earlier, I have in fact used this exact cam many times in different engines . . I have also used the XE262H, XE268H and XE274, a well as a few others in FE builds for one treason or another, aand they all ran just fine and dandy.

This wimpy little cam also made peak hp at 5000 rpm, which by your description I doubt you will rarely, if ever, reach, so this is simply another example that you don’t need a "big" cam that will have a rough idle to reach your goals, and the 270H cam that was suggested earlier by others is a good cam, however, it would have a noticeably rougher idle than this one and is a BAD choice for your modest app and smooth idle requirement . . It would also have LESS power in the lower rpm range than the XE256H which is where you need it for your 18,000 lb car . . Again, none of this is rocket science and you don’t need any special parts or need to pay any "experts" to achieve your goal.

He even sells the wimpy XE256H cam and has it for $168.00 . . Below is the list of Comp cams he sells which can also be bought at Summit Racing with free delivery . . That same cam is only $137.00 at Summit as are most other Comp hydraulic non roller cams.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/camshafts/brand/comp-cams/make/ford/engine-size/6-4l-390/engine-family/ford-big-block-fe/cam-style/hydraulic-flat-tappet/grind-number/fb-xe256h-10?N=4294891642%2B400114%2B4294951343%2B4294948007%2B4294948006%2B4294891085%2B4294888086

Hydraulic


Work phone 248-366-3309
Cell phone 248-931-0358

Box stock stock 390 tri power engine with original carbs
Compression ?
Wimpy comp XE256H cam
Headers
Tri Power
328 tq @ 5000 rpm
386 tq @ 3700 rpm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syaCusOF3eg

Duke and I have been emailing each other throughout the day. I've got him taken care of.
 

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CAM

I forgot to mention that Barry at Survival also has some custom hydraulic roller cams and I think the one below would also fit your app nicely . . I would ask him about it when you call . . It also has a fairly wide lsa which I mentioned earlier will provide a smoother idle than a cam with a narrower one if all other things are equal.

I would definitely do a little port work if you ran this cam but it will still work with stock heads, however, you can ask him what he thinks you can get away with if you use it.

Advertised duration 260-267 . . duration @ .050 206-214 . . valve lift .531-540 . . lsa 114

Camshaft


Complete list of custom hyd roller cams

Custom Hydraulic Roller



LIFTERS

I have used the lifters below in the majority of my builds for at least the last 30 years and they are the ones I would use in yours if you use a flat tappet [non roller] hydraulic cam . . These are simply the best flat tappet lifters on the planet . . The finish on the bottom is always the same and xlnt, and I have NEVER had a bad one and have NEVER had one make a “ticking” sound and I have ran them to some pretty high rpms.

The lower end Comp Cams lifters are crap and you couldn’t pay me to use them, and I am a Comp Cams dealer, lol . . I won't even sell them anymore . . If someone tries to sell you Comp Cams lifters, I would run away as fast as you can . . Some work ok and some do NOT, so why take the risk unless you feel lucky.

I got a new set of Comp sold flat tappet lifters for a 271 hi po I was building and the bottom surface that runs on the cam was so rough they looked like they were surfaced on a bench grinder, so thinking it was just a bad set and some others would be correct/better, I had them next day air mail another set which looked EXACTLY the same, so I drove 1/4 mile away to Bob Mckray’s shop whom builds race engines, and showed them to him and asked him if he would run them and he basically just laughed, so I called Howards Cams and bought some of their very nice lifters that had the direct oiling hole in the bottom and those are the only brand of solids I have used since.

Crane, anti pump up, Eaton style, check ball lifters . . $93.00

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99281-16/overview/make/ford


There is another very good lifter called Johnson from Johnson HY LIFT, unfortunately, they had some very bad things happen to them and were out of biz for many years . . They are now back in biz but i don't know what their current prices are.

here they are.

http://hylift.clickdriver.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/HyLift-Johnson-Lifter-Catalog_2014.pdf

http://hylift-johnson.com/
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Duke and I have been emailing each other throughout the day. I've got him taken care of.
Glad to hear it Brent, no doubt it will be a well thought out combo.
 

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Who do you want to call you?

You could also send whomever it is a private message with your name and number in case they don't look at this thread again.
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I have to go down to Bob McKray's in the next couple of days ,with the heads off of my Shelby. let's get together there. PM me if you can make it.
 

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I have to go down to Bob McKray's in the next couple of days ,with the heads off of my Shelby. let's get together there. PM me if you can make it.
I'm not familiar with your screen name so I apologize but I don't know who you are . . Some type of clue might help, lol.

Are you the person with the killer dark blue 67 SHELBY 500 the shop did the full resto on?

If so, I did the custom color mix for the stripes at Quigleys for that because the color from the factory paint code was way too white due to the new toners PPG had switched to . . I also had Monroe send the flywheel to Anaheim balance to get it matched balanced because it was WAY off.

Or are you his friend that has the killer Gold 1968 SHELBY GT500 that the shop did the resto on that won the Shelby show at South Coast Plaza and whom works at the BMW dealership in Santa Ana that Stewart bought his car from.

If so, I was the one that figuered out why it was running hot [which was a distributor issue that I fixed] and why it would miss when it got to operating temp [which was a faulty Scott Drake Concours ignition coil].
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I have to go down to Bob McKray's in the next couple of days ,with the heads off of my Shelby. let's get together there. PM me if you can make it.
False alarm, NO valves were bent so no reason to go down to Bob's . My feelings are hurt that you didn't recognize my ''screen name" as the license plate on my Shelby. I guess two major magazine covers doesn't make you "famous". I'll catch up with you later Mike.
 

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False alarm, NO valves were bent so no reason to go down to Bob's . My feelings are hurt that you didn't recognize my ''screen name" as the license plate on my Shelby. I guess two major magazine covers doesn't make you "famous". I'll catch up with you later Mike.

My apologies, I'm old and my brain is decrepid now...well more decrepid now than it used to be, lol . . I'm guessing that Monroe or Dude can tell me, or hell, I could just call Bob and find out.

I actually just sold Monroe my mint 1968 Deluxe steering wheel yesterday so I will send him an email right now and see if he knows.

I just can't remember for the life of me who had a really nice GT350.

On a side note, after Mike Hayden moved his business to his home, we all really missed the cops looking for him after he would do a big burn out in front of the Mustang shop with one of his monster Chevy Engines . . As you probably know, "uncle" Bob is quite a bit more reserved, lol.
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ok, Monroe just called me instead of emailing because he likes to talk, and he couldn't place the license plate either, but he said he'll look thru what he has to see if there is something, however, if my faded memory serves me right, this might be Randy's car, or is it possibly Randy's wife's car, lol, and if so, I would guess that this would make you Randy.

If that is the case, I probably didn't see it more than a couple times if even that so remembering the license plate would definitely be a challenge, and that would have been over a million years ago and I certainly saw you lots more than I saw your car.

Anyway, let me know if I win the prize!

I might give Bob a call anyway just to say hi.

Anyway, if that is you., sorry I couldn't make it to Bob's place but Sherri and I are in Lake Elsinore for the time being so it's a long drive, plus I'm trying to catch up on a lot of things so I'm pretty busy for the next bit.
 

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ok, I did a little digging, and if I didn't know better, I would say that the guy in the yellow shirt leaning on a blue Shelby on the front of this magazine looks a lot like Randy Gillis . .



..................


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Yup ,
Hard to believe that was 38 years ago. Now the car is white again as it was originally. Since that first cover it has been on Modified Mustangs and Fords (Feb 2011) and Mustang Monthly last year.

Back to the topic,
There is'nt just "one" right way to build an engine like this. Different opinions and ideas are common when it comes to building engines. There are some very smart people here and it would not surprise me if two radically different builds had the same or close to the same end results. Drama should be dealt with in PMs (IMHO)
Respectfully,
Randy
 

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I would agree on the drama thing, Randy....

However, there are certain things that are said publicly that need to be corrected, so that the random internet reader doesn't get false info.

Call any reputable builder that you can think of and ask them if they use Eagle cranks in their FE's... ;) There's no way I would use one and neither would Barry Rabotnick, Blair Patrick, Keith Craft, or the like. I simply don't want to see anyone tear a block in half.

On certain engine platforms, there is information privy only to those who have experience with them. I have lots of experience with FE's, Clevelands, and Windsors. It's what pays the bills. I wouldn't hop on a Pontiac forum and give advice contrary to Jim Butler, nor would I hop on a Chevy forum and give advice contrary to Pat Musi. ;)

I think I got you straightened up with your login on my Cleveland forum....thanks for all your help.
 
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