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not a ford but heres another car with a 390 that was a bit odd . . notice the blue arrow in the hood and the words air, lol.


..........
 

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</o:p>.
What is your definition of 'really fast'?
Which of your cars were 'really fast'
 

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What is your definition of 'really fast'?
Which of your cars were 'really fast'
my general definition of really fast for a daily driver street car is in the 10's.

i also prefer carbureted cars . . l guess i like the bad idle and raw gas dripping out the tail pipes . . the new vette certainly looks fast but it took a lot of technology to get it there and i imagine it idles like a cadilac . . those kind of cars bore me though.

i had a 68 camaro with a built 396 and ultra loud vortch supercharger that did right at 11.0 and i thought that was pretty fast . . i sold it to a guy from australia that wanted a fast muscle car . . he drove it few times and sold it because he thought it was too fast.

had a 55 chevy after high school that had a 265 engine that would spin to around 7500 and i thought that was pretty fast but not scary fast

a friend of mine in high school had a 68 camaro that his dad built . . it was extended 1' and had a tilt forward front end and narrowed rear end with tubs and no flares with 18" mickey thompson street slicks and an all aluminum polished 396 or 427 engine . . he drove it to school every day but he never raced it . . he and his sister were straight A students and she only had 1 arm and had a 70 1/2 4 speed z28 camaro, lol.
 

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Re: Interesting thread, here is what the old road tests say

A lot of truth in most of the thread, but much of it is apples-to-oranges. Just about any car can beat any other car if you work on it, especially true back then since all the factory cars did very poor prep work in general. And of course you cant just pick out your favorite two road tests, as they were all over the map.

What I will show here is the AVERAGE of every road test I can find (so far) on each engine type, real road tests of the era, minus any obvious ringers like Bobcats or Holman-Moody prepped cars etc. The 390gt is not my favorite engine, we've all been thru what Ford shoulda-coulda done but it really comes out pretty good, I was surprised!

Note I don't even bother giving the ET as it was so meaningless in 1960s road tests, just the AVERAGE trap MPH reported.

MPH...................Engine/Trans.............Number of Road Tests
96.20 ................ 390gt / 4M ................ 5
92.73 ................ 390gt / c6 ................ 19
93.45 ................ 390gt / all ............... 24
OK there's the baseline for the slug/pig/dog 390gt which on a good day made maybe 320 gross hp.

104.16 ................. 428cj / 4M .............. 18
100.86 ................. 428cj / c6 .............. 33
102.13 ................. 428cj / all ............. 51
We all know the 428cj was the right combo, cheap iron but fast.

89.14 ................. 289hp / 4M .............. 9
Somehow these seemed faster than the road tests turned out, I remember riding in some bone stock originals.

99.24 ................ 396L78 / 4M ............. 13
93.45 ................ 396-360 / 4M ............ 6
92.24 ................ 396-350 / all ........... 6
93.23 .................. 396-325 / all ........... 7
I have a lot of respect for the Rat, with very little prep they run really good. But the fact is, the road tests just didn't turn out that way. It's not really fair to compare the L78 with the 390gt, and the other 396 cars just weren't that fast bone stock. Our stock 429 Galaxie used to waste most of them back in the day.

102.05 .................. 440-6v / all ........... 16
The six pack was a fair competitor for any 428cj or 429cj/scj car but not much more than that.

101.03 .................. 400gto/fb-ra1-2-3-4 / all .... 41
I have not broken these out any further, partly because in the road tests, the big cammed ra2/4 cars just didn't run that much better. The best ra2/4 cars ran 104-107mph, but so did the best ra1 cars! And I have tried to exclude ringer cars here, so all in all I have to hand it to good old cast-rod Pontiac for the best prepped street cars.

94.26 .................. 400gto/fb-base-ho / all ........ 11
93.40 .................. 389gto-4v-6v / all .......... 17
Aside from the Ram Air cars though, the 390gt was a fair match for Pontiac's other offerings.

95.00 .................. 302z28 / 4M ................. 3
94.81 .................. 302boss / 4M ................ 8
By request, a couple more mini-motors thrown in. Ford really put some effort into engines like the first 390HiPo, the 428cj and 302boss, but did not show the same enthusiasm for the 390gt, leaving a big gap in performance from 1966 til 1968-1/2. I don't count the Medium Riser as "production", a few cars here and there doesn't count - Chevy actually made more COPO 427 Chevelles than Ford made Medium Riser cars.

The other way to compare these engines, which I have done with the WerbyFord Gonkulator, is to compute each one with similar prep, ie gears, tires, exhaust, driver, weather, tune. It comes out a little different than the road tests, and the 390gt does not do quite as well. I will dig that info up later, as I do think it is a more fair reflection of what these engines actually put out. But, that comparison is computed vs the actual AVERAGE road test MPH above.

I like the spirited threads on these topics, at least people still care!
Those numbers look real to me but What about the Ford Boss 351 it is a ford that would give every one of the cars listed a run for its money!
 

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Re: Interesting thread, here is what the old road tests say

Those numbers look real to me but What about the Ford Boss 351 it is a ford that would give every one of the cars listed a run for its money!
the numbers i saw were

13.9 @ 102
13.8 @ 104 . . 3.91 gear . . 4 speed

heres from another source listed as fastest first . . the 66 vette was really 450 hp but chevy took the numbers at a lower rpm because the gov wanted the mfgs to limit hp to 425, lol.


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.1 1966 427 Cobra [email protected] 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65<o:p></o:p>
.2 1966 Corvette 427 [email protected] L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65<o:p></o:p>
.3 1969 Road Runner [email protected] 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69<o:p></o:p>
.4 1970 Hemi Cuda [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69<o:p></o:p>
.5 1970 Chevelle SS454 [email protected] 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
.6 1969 Camaro [email protected]21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69<o:p></o:p>
.7 1968 Corvette [email protected] 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68<o:p></o:p>
.8 1970 Road Runner [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69<o:p></o:p>
.9 1970 Buick GS Stage I [email protected] 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70<o:p></o:p>
10 1968 Corvette 427 [email protected] L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68<o:p></o:p>
11 1969 Charger 500 [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67<o:p></o:p>
12 1970 Plymouth Superbird [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 ? ? ?<o:p></o:p>
14 1968 Road Runner [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69
15 1973 Trans Am [email protected] 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73<o:p></o:p>
16 1969 Corvette [email protected] 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69<o:p></o:p>
17 1969 Super Bee [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
18 1969 Boss 429 Mustang [email protected] Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
19 1970 Challenger R/T [email protected] 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69<o:p></o:p>
20 1970 Torino Cobra [email protected] 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
21 1968 Biscayne [email protected] 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68<o:p></o:p>
22 1964 Polara 500 [email protected] 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64<o:p></o:p>
23 1969 GTX [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69<o:p></o:p>
24 1969 Dart 440 [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69<o:p></o:p>
25 1971 Road Runner [email protected] 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71<o:p></o:p>
26 1971 Cuda [email protected] 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71<o:p></o:p>
27 1971 Corvette [email protected] 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71<o:p></o:p>
28 1971 Super Bee [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70<o:p></o:p>
29 1968 Hurst/Olds [email protected] 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
30 1970 Hemi 'Cuda [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69<o:p></o:p>
31 1968 Firebird [email protected] 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68<o:p></o:p>
32 1967 Corvette [email protected] 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67<o:p></o:p>
33 1965 Catalina [email protected] 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65<o:p></o:p>
34 1969 Super Bee Six Pack [email protected] 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69<o:p></o:p>
35 1971 Boss 351 Mustang [email protected] Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71<o:p></o:p>
36 1966 Satellite [email protected] 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66<o:p></o:p>
37 1969 Coronet R/T [email protected] 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69<o:p></o:p>
38 1968 Cyclone GT [email protected] 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68<o:p></o:p>
39 1969 Nova SS 396 [email protected] 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69<o:p></o:p>
40 1969 Shelby GT-500 [email protected] 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
41 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet [email protected] 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69<o:p></o:p>
42 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 [email protected] 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69<o:p></o:p>
43 1962 Corvette [email protected] 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62<o:p></o:p>
44 1969 Barracuda [email protected] 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69<o:p></o:p>
45 1962 Catalina [email protected] 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62<o:p></o:p>
46 1969 Mustang Mach I [email protected] 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
47 1967 GTO [email protected] 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67<o:p></o:p>
48 1970 Trans Am [email protected] 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70<o:p></o:p>
49 1970 Torino Cobra [email protected] 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70
<o:p> </o:p>
 

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Re: Interesting thread, here is what the old road tests say

For the Boss 351 the data I have says

101.79 ...................... 351boss / 4M ........................ 4

Only 4 road tests but a fairly tight group.
These have to be compared to other 4spd cars, so the Boss 351 will get edged out by the 428cj, 400ra Pontiacs, and 6-pack Mopars. The 351boss was for sure the top dog small block though, Gonkulates to 373 gross hp.
 

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No drag strips left around here . . used to be able to race at the orange county airport . . ocir had grudge nite on Wednesday nite and I think it was $20.00 to race and you could rent slicks for your car but it was turned into a strip mall . . they also had motocross next door and I used to race there . . most everyone knows what happened to lions drag strip . . carlsbad is now a housing tract, I used to race motoctross there too . . irwindale was only a 1/8<sup>th</sup> mile in the end and it is closed . . long beach is closed . . fontana may be closing . . pomona has one but that is just for nhra now.
Hey Barnett, where did you live? I grew up in North Tustin. Went to those Weds grudge nights many times. That was when I have a '66 GTA 390 Fairlane. The engine was modified and I could run in the low 12s with a peg leg 4.11 rear end...when the engine ran properly...I was a kid and was just learning back then...did a lot of bonehead backyard mechanic modifications back then.

I was just saying to my 13 yr old son that I wish there was a decent drag strip to go to around here nowadays and how I would like to set up my Mustang (with my son's help) for drag racing and make it a father son project. Barona comes to mind down in San Diego but it's a 1/8th mile.
 

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Hey Barnett, where did you live? I grew up in North Tustin. Went to those Weds grudge nights many times. That was when I have a '66 GTA 390 Fairlane. The engine was modified and I could run in the low 12s with a peg leg 4.11 rear end...when the engine ran properly...I was a kid and was just learning back then...did a lot of bonehead backyard mechanic modifications back then.

I was just saying to my 13 yr old son that I wish there was a decent drag strip to go to around here nowadays and how I would like to set up my Mustang (with my son's help) for drag racing and make it a father son project. Barona comes to mind down in San Diego but it's a 1/8th mile.
i am in oc . . i am a friend of monroes whom owned mustangs and american classics in mission viejo . . if you have ever been there you probably saw me.

as far as ocir goes, yeah that was cool wasn't it . . just 30 minutes from home . . i saw the jet car run there.

since you grew up in tustin, you might know shane the mustang parts guy or chip foose . . i think chip still lives there.

the motocross track was just on the back of the wall that ran the length of the strip . . there was a big jump at the end of the drag strip and when we went over it we could see the strip and see cars going down it as we sailed thru the air in the direction of the starting line at around 65 mph . . the dirt from the mx track would make a big dust cloud and some of it would go over onto the end of the strip, lol.

this was probably around 1978.

i think fontana would be closer for you wouldn't it? . . i don't know how long their strip is now but many have shortened them to 1/8 mile for insurance purposes.
.
 

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. i don't know how long their strip is now but many have shortened them to 1/8 mile for insurance purposes.
.
It's a plague on the landscape. Our local track has gone 1/8 mile. I detest 1/8 mile drag racing. For half a race you should only pay half price for admission and concessions.
 

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Re: 390 ci hp claims

It's a plague on the landscape. Our local track has gone 1/8 mile. I detest 1/8 mile drag racing. For half a race you should only pay half price for admission and concessions.
lol yeah i agree . . i just starts getting fun after 1/8 mile . . its kinda like only getting to second base on a date.
 

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396 325 350 and 360 horse power chevelles off of the dealers lot were nothing to be talked about unless it was out of a magazine or you just had mouth wind to waste. I knew guys that own them and there was a guy that own a 1966 390 335 hp cyclone gt and i knew a guy that own a 1967 fairlane GTA and they used to blow the doors off the chevelles, the 325s were no trouble and the 350 and 360 could not beat the pure stock 390s. This did not come out of a magazine this came from street racing and just about every friday night at madison county dragstrip from 1965 - 1968. A lot of the bad stock 396s came out of magazines. The 396/375 hp chevelles ran ok but they were not all that the magazine had them up to be. Later i own a 1969 cyclone CJ with the 428 engine c6 automatic, nice pleasant quiet car to drive everyday but the 396/375 hp chevelles with their nosiey solid lifters and cam, i only knew two guys that own them,but were no match for the big cyclone. facts not mouth wind or out of a magazine. Most of the good things you heard about a 396 in 1966-67 were just mouth wind or out of a magazine.
 

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I didn't want to highjack the 400hp combo thread but there was talk of the '61-62 tri power [email protected]. Being a 18 year old Ford fanatic, I was thrilled when I heard that the '66 Fairlane GT was going to have a 390 in it. I was very disappointed when it only had 335hp and all the 396 Chevelles in my home town would blow the doors off of the Fairlane GTs. I don't know why Ford didn't see what was coming and throw some more horsepower in their 390s. How do these two engines compare when dyno-ed on the same dyno? Realistically, what was their hp in a side by side shoot out.
I have to tell you a lot of runs are going to be won or lost with gear ratio and chevy had more gear in the back than ford off the assembly line. The chevy 396 or should I say 402 is no better than the 390 when set up as the 402 is. Prove on the drag strip for 30 years of drag history here no B.S. My mustang ram a 4.30 drag pack, FMX AUTO With 3500 stall speed, solid lifter cam with posi out back weight was 3200 lbs with BOSS 351 FRONT AND REAR BUMPERS. Headers improved horsepower and the engine could breath with the 700 d.pumper. before the build I ran even or better with any 396 on the street and I was running a 351 Cleveland cobra jet with 11.0 comp ratio from the factory. The 4.30 drag pack option was all I needed to put the 396 in its place along with a lot of other factory cars. Don't try to race someone with 4.10 gears when you have a set of 3.25 gears in the rear end because you will get spanked every time even by a 350 running up against a 390 with no rear end gears. If your going to race then get set up to do it because if not the chevy has you out geared and is probably lighter from the factory than your 390 is. Bottom line if you did not order the ford in with gears and posi they are not there. From the factory chevy was built to be king of the street but a little work to even the playing field and a lot of chevy cars went down in flames.
 

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mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> All the cars I had that were unmodified were not really fast by my definition.<o:p>
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The boss 9 was a pig but had good torque down low so it could easily spin the tires . . the 271 hi pos were fun to drive if they were a 4 speed but I didn’t think those were fast either and the 289 Shelby’s were just a little faster.<o:p>
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All the 428’s were pigs . . the 71 boss 351 was fun and revved pretty high and was one of the fastest . . the boss 302’s were slow for drag racing but that’s not what they were designed for but if you were in a curve and nailed it coming out from around 4500 rpm, they pulled really well.<o:p>
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My 65 impala 425 hp 396 4 speed track pack or drag pack car was pretty fast and revved pretty high . . I knew it was pretty rare when I bought it but never thought they would bring the big numbers they are now.<o:p>
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My L72 427 dana chevelle ran really well . . my friend had a 66 L72 vette with side pipes and that ran really well also and was incredibly loud, lol.

440 6 pack challenger ran well, 340 ta challengers weren't really fast but again, they weren't designed to be drag cars.<o:p>
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No drag strips left around here . . used to be able to race at the orange county airport . . ocir had grudge nite on Wednesday nite and I think it was $20.00 to race and you could rent slicks for your car but it was turned into a strip mall . . they also had motocross next door and I used to race there . . most everyone knows what happened to lions drag strip . . carlsbad is now a housing tract, I used to race motoctross there too . . irwindale was only a 1/8<sup>th</sup> mile in the end and it is closed . . long beach is closed . . fontana may be closing . . pomona has one but that is just for nhra now.
I am a ford boy but dont get to pumped up on any 396 my cousin had a 327 -350 in a 67 nova we ran a lot of 396 rats and i dont remember one that beat us and the car would just spin in 1-2 had to run them down.Look at nhra ss/a and see what holds the record its not a hemi or a rat its a fe in the top class.
 
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