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Discussion Starter #1
Hello!

Im thinking of changing my C6 in my -73 Mach 1 to a 4R70W. Anybody with experience with 4R70W ?
I like the fact that i can have 2.80ish on first gear and still have 0.70 on 4th so its nicer on the highway :) . I have 3.70 rear gear now but really want to have 4.10ish :D
 

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Yes, there are several threads here about using the 4R70W. It's just another trans swap, but you'll need a controller of some sort (Baumann/US Shift, MegaSquirt, PA, Hughes, etc.). The factory ECMs get too confused to adapt reliably.

David
 

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Yes, there are several threads here about using the 4R70W. It's just another trans swap, but you'll need a controller of some sort (Baumann/US Shift, MegaSquirt, PA, Hughes, etc.). The factory ECMs get too confused to adapt reliably.

David
Thanks David for your input! I will search the existing threads for trans swap info.
I just found out that my fast XFI 2.0 efi ECU could manage the trans so that saves me some money :)
 

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... I just found out that my fast XFI 2.0 efi ECU could manage the trans so that saves me some money :)
Excellent. There are many options for control, so using the XFI is a no-brainer. In a nut-shell, the 4R70Ws you're looking for are 4.2L pickup and van units 1998 and-up for best strength. 1999 has an even better valve body setup, but dropped the cable speedo output and went to electronic speedo that year. If that's not an issue for you, then you have a much better range to choose from. The Mustangs with 3.8L V6 are another option, but will need a little more beefing for serious HD use. Some say with the shift kit and good control pressures, they will handle 500 hp as-is. I haven't tried that, but it wouldn't be far from the truth. Try to get the pigtail for the trans connector so you can make your own hookup for far less cash - if you don't mind doing light wire-work.

A good unit just needs a shift kit and torque converter suited to your engine/gearing/weight/etc as usual. Note these are a bit pricey, as the lockup is normally engaged with 3rd gear - not 4th - for better top-end efficiency. So, the lockup has to handle all your HP on engagement. Again, not a big deal and is standard practice with these things. TCs with 1000hp lockup capability are out there, and less cash for less HP, but still a bit pricey. Dirty Dog has some good stuff for 4Rs, and some good tech on the web about them too.

David
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Excellent. There are many options for control, so using the XFI is a no-brainer. In a nut-shell, the 4R70Ws you're looking for are 4.2L pickup and van units 1998 and-up for best strength. 1999 has an even better valve body setup, but dropped the cable speedo output and went to electronic speedo that year. If that's not an issue for you, then you have a much better range to choose from. The Mustangs with 3.8L V6 are another option, but will need a little more beefing for serious HD use. Some say with the shift kit and good control pressures, they will handle 500 hp as-is. I haven't tried that, but it wouldn't be far from the truth. Try to get the pigtail for the trans connector so you can make your own hookup for far less cash - if you don't mind doing light wire-work.

A good unit just needs a shift kit and torque converter suited to your engine/gearing/weight/etc as usual. Note these are a bit pricey, as the lockup is normally engaged with 3rd gear - not 4th - for better top-end efficiency. So, the lockup has to handle all your HP on engagement. Again, not a big deal and is standard practice with these things. TCs with 1000hp lockup capability are out there, and less cash for less HP, but still a bit pricey. Dirty Dog has some good stuff for 4Rs, and some good tech on the web about them too.

David
Again thanks alot for your input, David!
Im in Sweden so its hard to find used 4R70W here but I can always buy in USA and send it here. I found a "all ready made" trans at 4R70W Street Strip - Broader Performance. for 1 700 $ . Perhaps a ok deal since the trans then are "all good" and just a bult on?

The engine is a Ford racing Z head 427 sbf stroker estimated to 535hp @ 5 600 , 545 lb.ft. torque @ 4500 rpm. And the XFI 2.0 efi. I will do a 95 octane tune and a e85 tune (since we have e85 in every gasstation here I would like to try it) so if the trans are beefed up the HP shouldnt be a problem, or?

Torque converter pick then. Engine operates perhaps best in 3 500 - 5 500 (or maybe 3 000 - 5 000). My car wieght is ~3500 lbs and my rear gear now are 3.70ish . Maybe a 3 000 rpm TC or should I perhaps get a 3 500 rpm? I have no experience with converters over 2 000 rpm, will there be driveabillity isuess with a 3 500 rpm TC?
The car will be used mostly on the street but a couple of times a year I would like to take it to the track for some drag racing (ET Bracket)

Lots of questions :rolleyes:
 

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Broader has a very good reputation. Talk with him to make your decision. As for the converter, there are no drivability issues like there are with traditional transmissions, as the converter will lock-up at any speed and any gear you want, at any rpm or throttle you like. So, there are no problems cruising at low rpms with a high-stall converter, and no excessive heat issues. I have done lockup on electronic transmissions in all gears but first, and they work very well on the street that way.

David
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Broader has a very good reputation. Talk with him to make your decision. As for the converter, there are no drivability issues like there are with traditional transmissions, as the converter will lock-up at any speed and any gear you want, at any rpm or throttle you like. So, there are no problems cruising at low rpms with a high-stall converter, and no excessive heat issues. I have done lockup on electronic transmissions in all gears but first, and they work very well on the street that way.

David
Thats really nice, David :D
I have mailed Broader now. Hopefully I can send it with a friend whos having a container sent here in jan-feb 2013. I will update any progress :)
 

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I am getting ready to install one in my Country Sedan. I believe "Iwantmore" did a write up on installing a 4r70w behind his 289. I am installing mine behind a 351w. I used a trans from a 1999 mustang with a 3.8 v6. I am currently rebuilding my 351w. I was running an "AOD" before. didn't like the shift pattern. I am using the Baumann US Shift controller. I like the options it affords me where I can control the shift points and have multiple shift patters with a flick of a switch. I also like to be able to turn off overdrive. Let me know how your installation goes for you. So far it has been a fairly simple swap. Had to shorten drive line.

Larry
 

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The 4R75W or E have no versions with the bellhousing bolt pattern needed by the small-block family of engines as used by the OP. However, I understand you can transfer many of the parts from one to the appropriate 4R70W case, though I have not taken inventory of what those parts would be and if they would improve the strength significantly. I have heard from reliable sources the strength improvements are relatively minor, with a downside that controllers designed for the 4R70 must be re-programmed to use the 4R75, and vice versa. Whether that's a deal-breaker would depend on your setup and the costs involved in the second trans and swapping parts.

David
 

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I'm unsure of any bolt pattern differences and whether either will bolt up to and older SBF engine but I do know that the externals of the 4R70W and 4R75W were identical in the 2003 and 2004 Marauders......with the later being used in 2004!!:tup:

Maybe older versions of the 4R70W will bolt up?? :confused:
 

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Alanders- check out Lentech Automatics too, Len the owner, is a Ford guy which is a plus,
I used one of their valve bodies in an AOD swap & it totally woke up the AOD, gives you control over the 1,2,3 shifts & a simple on/off switch for o/d control
He builds & sells complete 4rw;s too, or you can buy all the parts needed to harden the Ford OD;s up.
And do check out iwantmore;s OD install at this site, lots of great tips in his "how to install a 4rw70".
 

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Maybe older versions of the 4R70W will bolt up?? :confused:
Yes, the AODE of course, and 4R70W for the Explorer 5.0L (both 2WD and 4WD versions, but tough to find in 2WD) or F-150 4.2L will bolt to SBF, and use the Explorer flex plate for standard 12" converters, or aftermarket plate for 11" converters (Marauder/Lincoln type for higher RPMs). The upgrades done to the AOD are built-in to the 4R, so may as well just start with that like I am.

ALLIANderS and others retro-fitting AODE/4R70W/4R75W to an older chassis - if going EFI, you may have tranny control built-in. If not, or if going carbureted, stand-alone controllers are out there from $700-1200 for the controller and harness. Yikes. :eek: I'm working on an alternative using a MS GPIO board that has been used for other electronic trannys. It's an assembly kit that you solder-up for less than half the cheapest option out there, including the case and harness (less trans-end connector). I would like to make this an option for us Ford muscle folks, and I need it for a project I have right now.

HELP: To do it, I need some info though. I am missing info for:

  1. The pulse width modulation (PWM) frequency AND duty cycle range of the EPC (Electronic Pressure Control) solenoid.
  2. Same info for the TCC (Torque Converter Control).
  3. Transfer function outline for EPC PWM.
Some of the info appears to have changed in different years as well. If anyone has or can get this info, I can move this along. I would like to get the unit together for initial programming in the next 30-45 days if possible. I will start another thread specific to this info request. Please post any findings there.

Thanks!
David
 

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Discussion Starter #15
HELP: To do it, I need some info though. I am missing info for:

  1. The pulse width modulation (PWM) frequency AND duty cycle range of the EPC (Electronic Pressure Control) solenoid.
  2. Same info for the TCC (Torque Converter Control).
  3. Transfer function outline for EPC PWM.
Thanks!
David
Hi David!
I found some info here TCCoA Transmission Article - Page 15 (half way down the page) . Cant say I really understand the info but maybe you do ;)
 

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Sorry to bring up a old post but I have a 4r70w behind a ford racing 427 535hp engine, just awesome , have a 3500 stall as well, its actually a AODE with 4r70w internals from a 2000 box





 

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Discussion Starter #17
Wow ! :D

Absolutely beautiful car, engine, trans and all!

Im quite behind my schedule... I havent got the 4R70W yet so I will go with the C6 this summer. Engine is going in the car now in a couple of weeks so I havent drove it yet but I dynoed it and got:

98 octane 541 hp / 535 lb.ft

e85 551 hp / 545 lb.ft

The FAST XFI 2.0 is mapped but I guess there is more to do. The change to e85 in the dyno was basicly a fuelchange with a change in the XFIs fuelconstant. I think there can be some improvements by changing the ignitionmaps and so on.

How is the engine and the trans working out for you? I bet its awesome ;)
 

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Ive had a few issues with the motor which are fixed now, the combo with tranny is awesome and I highly recommend it, 3.7 rear end and I cruise at 65mph with converter locked at 2100rpm
 

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68topless,
Your car looks great. Are those headers custom ? Have you had any problems with the slip on collectors leaking ? I'm getting ready to have some made and I was a little concerned they might leak.
 

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Not to derail the thread BUT if either of you guys has a link with sound clips of that crate motor running I'd love to hear it! Thanks for posting those pics of your car! Amazing job on those headers the way they tuck back like that with shock towers still intact. Tight fit! 1 3/4 primaries?
 
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