Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I got a 67 Mustang GTA 390 and it has very poor performance for being 390 cubic inches. It does not smoke or have much blowby but I want much more performance. I bought a 69 429 with C/6 late last year from a very strong running Mercury and was planning on putting that in my Mustang but I just came across a 428 crank cut .010/.010 and fresh .030 block for $500 and I'm now thinking of using that instead. Can I get the 428 to run low 12s or high 11s easily or should I just use the 69 429? I have a friend that has a machine shop and ports heads and owes me a good port job from a deal made last year. I see I can get forged TRW flat top pistons for $303 from summit for the 429 but I can't find any flat top pistons for the 428. I want between 11-12 to 1 compression and want some where around 6000-6500 rpm shift points using the 3000 stall Hughes C-6 converter I already have. Whichever engine I use, I will get headers so that isn't an issue and I have engine mounts for the 429 already too. Which would be better for performance and longevity? I want the engine to last and need to outrun my GM buddies or should I say "unfortunates". I am a mechanic but I don't know much about building a high hp Ford engine, just stock. Thank you and this forum is great. soo much information and knowledgable people here I know I can reach my goal with your help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,662 Posts
Ah someone with the same dilemma as me.I'm sure you could get the 428 to run the numbers you want but they are expensive to build(although sounds like you got a great deal)but the question is will it stay together.I have a 429 thunderjet and a 428 as well.I personally have not had good luck with FEs but never really had one built from scratch with all the oiling mods and good parts.Follow the "grenaded 390 what now" post for lots of opinions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I read the grenade thread and can't believe the FE is as bad as they say. Why did Ford make them so weak? I guess I will just put the 429 in then unless there is real evidence the 428 will hold but from what I've read here it won't. I see super stock 428 FEs still breaking records but how do they keep them together? That 429 from the Merc was a very strong runner before I pulled it out and was very impressed with the power in that heavy car. I thought maybe a 428 could run the same with the same modifications and performance parts plus it would be nice to keep the FE in my 390 GTA Mustang a 428 but i'm after performance. I will wait and see what other people have to say before I make my decision. i want a strong and reliable engine for stoplight racing and some track time a couple times a month. Help me decide please!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,129 Posts
If I read correctly you have a 69 429, those are very good and powerful motors, the stock compression on those is 10.5 or 11.1, in that neighbor hood. I had one in a 69 Galaxy and it would run high 14`s low 15`s with only a 750 holley on top, no other mods. And those Galaxy`s weighed in the neighborhood of 4700 lbs. or so. I say go with the 429, nothing against the FE`s but the 385 is a better motor and probably much cheaper to build, and it should not take much to make 500 plus pony`s with that 429.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
as far as what you were saying earlier about hearing a lot of bad stuff about FE's on this message board;
Remember this is just a message board, anyone can post a message here and act like a pro-stock racer even though they have never changed a sparkplug. There are a lot of knowledgable people here, but there are also a lot who aren't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
Personally, I'd go with the 428 purely for the fact that the car is already an FE car. You can always tell a little white lie to your buddies, and tell them you're rebuilding the 390 for a little more oomph. Then use the 428 parts, maybe a set of Edelbrock aluminum heads, and have at it. There are too many early cars with 385 series motors in them , it's almost old hat now. Keep the original look, but build it for power. Just my opinion, I prefer the stock-appearing method, low profile......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
It would be really cool to have a 67 mustang with a decent built 428 in it. I would go with this instead of putting a used 429.
But if you plan on building the 429, it could give you a lot more options. Really depends on what you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the input guys. I just found a 460 crank from a 70 or 71 Lincoln that I can get cheap for making my 429 a 460. I see pistons are still under $400 for forged dome TRW pistons. Will those domes fit a 69 429 head or do the domes have to be machined off? I still can't find anything but dished pistons for a 428.
Greg Cook, my car is a real 67 GTA fastback but I have had her for over 20 years and still has only 88,000 miles. I see too many other Mustangs with 390s in them so I don't see this one as being rare at all. What is the 557? Sounds like too much money. Does it need a race block and how much is the kit? I don't think spending 5 or 6 thousand dollars on a racing short block is practical but that would be nice. I have set aside $4500 over the winter for engine work and headers.
Can I get the 429 or 460 to fit under the stock hood without cutting my hood? I'm worried the 428 won't run much better than my 390 but then again I have seen some very strong FEs that were driven on the street. I like how the 390 looks compared to my 429 but if the 428 blows up after putting money into it, it will be a waste. I've heard the 429 and 460 has oiling problems too so this is like trying to pick the lesser of two evels while wanting the most performance. I thought similarly built 428 compared to 429 would equal out from 428 having more stroke for more torque while the 429 will be slower off the line but will get cranking once it starts to rev. Headers cost basically the same I see for each and I have the 429 mounts too so this is basically an equal effort which ever way I do go. This is a tough decision. Thanks for everybody's replies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
I own both Fe (baby 352) and 385 (429) engines. The 429 ended up replacing a well worn 390 in my Galaxie. It is there because it was cheaper than building another FE. I also have a daily driver Wagon with a 352. By using a few hop up parts, it is alot of fun. The best part is that most people rarely see one and can't believe it still works. The added costs are offset by the coolness. The 429/460 gets the nod for cheap, the FE is definately more unusual.
If it were my car I'd build the FE just to be different. Sorry Greg and others! Just my thoughts!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,806 Posts
557 that bad boy! Geeze, $4,500 will get you a lot. A 557 stroker kit costs $1700 with 4.5" stroke crank, 6.8 H beam rods, and J&E flat top pistons. With your '69 429 heads you will get about 13:1 compression plus you said that someone owes you head work. Porting the '69 heads and buying a solid roller setup with $450 Crites headers and a low profile Torker II intake which should clear your hood with a 2" air cleaner and you got an 11 second street cruiser. Maybe trade those '69 heads for a set of D3 '73 heads to drop compression to around 11:1 and have those ported. Super easy 11s even without traction. FEs are neat but for the money, 460 will meet your goal easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
557 Posts
67GT wrote..."how do the super stock racers keep their 428's together?"

The answer is: They dont!, they have several back-up motors on hand for when they explode.

This is not just the FE guy's, though.
I've seen the same from GM and Mopar racers, but on a lesser scale.

A 427 side-oiler will probably withSTANd the high RPM's and power levels, but a backwards oiling 428 will not...thus the need for spare's.

You're not interested in keeping it original, so get that 460 crank and use the big displacement to your advantage!

I have to agree with Greg Cook about the "cool factor" of having a stock looking FE in the car, but how cool will it be when the 428 comes up against a 454 Camaro and looses?

YOU NEED THAT 460!! it will help insure your victory over the "Scumaro"!

Dollar for dollar, nothing beats a 460 or Windsor!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
wow tuff call

I cant believe a 428 with perf rpm heads and intake,10.5-1, 292H comp cam, 1 7/8 long tubes and a 800 holley DP wouldnt be a fun ride. It would be the easyer of the two choices since its a FE car already. Of course a 460 with same parts would make more power. I just cant believe you cant make a 428 live with 6000 rpm shift points.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,806 Posts
On 2002-03-20 19:56, Greg Cook wrote:
You could always tell a Hi-Perf Ford a block away back in the old days. 16 little hammers playin' a sweet tune!
Poetic brilliance at it's best by Greg
Almost makes ME want to build my 428CJ for the Falcon but 16 little roller hammers in my 466 should sound good too.
 

·
Subscriber
Joined
·
329 Posts
Given that the car is an orignal FE big block and you have the parts for the 428 short block I think you should go that way. All of the accessories, pulleys, brackets, exhaust are the same. You don't have to change transmissions/bell housings, remember the bell housing patterns are different and with the money saved there alone you can buy the Edelbrock aluminum Performer RPM heads and keep everything packaged like the original. Read the FE build-up on this site to see just how fast you can go with the 428. I think Victor's blown motor was due to metal bits from the cam lobe that went flat. You'll go faster for less money, you can always tell people its a rebuilt 390
and you preserve a ton of value if you do ever sell the car not to mention it'll weigh 200 lbs. less.
 

·
Subscriber
Joined
·
329 Posts
One other quick comment, as you know 67 engine comparments are identical to 69's and you'll notice Victor had to cut a hole in his hood to let the 460 breathe (see Project 460) It goes fast but that funky air cleaner sticking out makes for a lousy street set-up.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,806 Posts
The MPG head service 460 swap kit for '67-'68 Mustangs sits the 460 lower than any other kit and leaves enough room under a stock hood for a Victor 460 intake and Dominator without cutting a hole in the hood. With a shorter intake and the ET goal like 67GT is planning on will only need a Torker II or similar low profile intake while still using an air cleaner under the uncut hood. Crites kit sit's the engine higher and thus the hole in the hood for air cleaner. MPG kit is the way to go for a '67-'68 Mustang if you want it all(including air cleaner) to fit under a stock hood.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
i never had any trouble with the [fe]had to put in the right rod bolts,and a CAST IRON HV OIL PUMP,i used the stock 427 dp dist,all afeter markets,don't seem to like the fe timing curve,also i found if you run a split over lap cam,fe's start making lots of horses,and reliable,don't foget,the 428 'sin 69 and 70 were running almost flat 10,s in ss mustangs,my fairlane [66]427,ran 10,40's,4 speed,31's "n" locker,514 gear,street in 70/71 in detroit,390's in stock trim,with the right fac parts were runnig 12 flatsalso the nhra record for pure stock ss is a 427 67 fairlane,10.44,all engine no nos or boosts,also 67 mustang 390 also in nhra stock,ran 11.60,STOCKERS,not bad for a boat anchor,motor,also don't forget,when the 427 was dropped,from production,they brought out 429 boss for nascar,couldn't make it,nascar let the 427 run again,the only true wedge to run with the hemi's'its good to see the 429 series,replace the[fe]hell of an enginebut don't forget the old fe,most people don't understand how to build them
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,906 Posts
Thats too funny!

waltvarnauskas......doh!!
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top