[tbirdz12]

Hi ford fans.

New to the site and fords. I got a few muscle cars but over the winter i picked up a real nice sleeper candidate, and have been toying with the idea doing the project. Lots of questions and uncertainty of the cost. I guess my biggest hang up is knowing im gonna lose $ when it come time to sell the car.

Anyways, heres what i got.

a nice 75 Maverick 4 door with 302, C4, A/C, 8" rear, solid rust free FL body, nice original paint dog dish caps and whitewalls.

Ideally, the cars exterior looks will remain stock but be built to at least run neck & neck with a new vette, so say low to mid 12's.

Ive got the old motor out now while i fix some oil leaks and detail the engine bay. I hate to put $ into this old engine that could be put towards a stroker motor.

Any ideas on the best way (cost effective) to get 450 ish RWHP for a street car.

I assume if i keep the C4, it will need a rebuild and shift kit.

The open rear will need to be a posi with 3.55 at least.

Ive always worked to keep my cars stock looking but this one is my chance to have some fun with a build up.

Any thoughts or suggestions are encouraged.

 

[dbiscayne]

A rust free Florida body, damn thats pretty rare.
First thing I'd do is ditch the 302 for a 351W, it should pretty much bolt right in, might have some trouble with the headers but that can be overcome. Shorty headers will probably bolt right in. I think a 351 will give you a more streetable car in the end. Not knocking the 302 I just think that if you really want over 400hp you're gonna spend more on the 302 that you already have vs. buying a used 351W and starting there.
With a good rebuild, matched intake/cam/heads, especially the heads that should be where all your $$ goes, you'll be there easily, throw some nitrous in there and watch out.
How much does that thing weigh? If it's over 3300 you'll want the low end torque of the 351 anyway.
If you're not driving it on the highway much I'd put some really steep gears in it, like 4.10's or more. With a 14" dia wheel and a 235/60 tire you'll be around 3300 rpm's at 60 mph, and 5550 rpm at 100. It's got the potential to embarass a lot of cars thats for sure.

 

[Motorhead]

450rwhp puts you well over 500 engine hp, which is definitely in the danger zone for a factory 302 block. If you want to do this right, you'll need a Dart or Ford Racing 302 block with 4-bolt mains, stroker 347 crank/beefy rods, forged pistons, aluminum heads (minimum AFR205s), Vic Jr. intake, and camshaft probably around 250 duration @0.050. Also the C4 will be ok if beefed up, but the 8" will never survive if you plan on trying to get any traction... gonna have to ditch that for a 9", 31 spline preferrably. Also, it may look like a sleeper, but there will be no way to make a 500+hp small block SOUND like a sleeper... you're gonna need dual 3" exhaust and some free flowing mufflers in order to not choke it down.
dbiscayne is right about going with a 351, and stroking it out to around 400 cubes would help you get to your goal a little easier... but no matter what you do, 500+hp is not a simple goal with any small block... takes good parts to make sure you aren't just building a time bomb.

_________________
'86 Bronco fullsize, 460, E4OD
'85 Ranger, 340hp 289, T5

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Motorhead on 5/11/06 3:28am ]</font>

 

[tonys10sec306]

NOS is the cheepest way!!

 

[Beoweolf]

or super charger! More expensive, but longer lasting, and you could move it to another engine (sbf) pretty much as you choose. There are a lot of options: blow-through, enclosed carb or go EFI and use a Mustang kit. With used and swap meet / junk yard parts you could put one together in the $2K - $3K range. A decent NO2 (250 hp) kit is about 1/3 to 1/2...but each tank fill will add up.

FMS has several crate 302 / 347 short blocks in the 340 - 450 hp range that are not that bad a deal...if you shop around.


_________________
"Your role may be thankless, but if you are willing to give it your all ... You just may bring happiness to those that outlast you."-- Sacrifice

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beoweolf on 5/11/06 8:51am ]</font>

 

[mikemustang289]

you don't need 450 rwhp to run 12's. that kind of power on the street would be very hard to keep to the ground, especially with a 235 radial pegleg rear end.

 

[ujt389]

Stroke a 351 windsor and put some good heads on it. then put on a charger or some nitrous. With that kind of power you will need a good suspension and brakes and you will also need to reenforce the body.

 

[mavman]

use a 302...add a turbocharger.

Total sleeper.....

Smooth idle quality, just like the stocker..in fact...you can use the stock camshaft. Good heads, good free-flowing headers to feed the turbo and a 3 1/2" or 4" exhaust split into dual 2 1/2"....and some decent mufflers. It'll be quiet, smooth, easy to drive...until you build some boost. Then it becomes a handful.

I did one similar to yours a few years ago. I did it the junkyard way...the only way I know how (cheap). I used a well-seasoned turbocharger from a powerstroke diesel Ford pickup ('95 or 6 model I think), home made restrictive headers (could have done a lot better on those) and home made 3" exhaust....no intercooler (could have done that better too). I have no clue how much power it made. Enough to annhilate rear tires at ANY speed...and in ANY gear. I did have a 3500 stall converter which helped spool time...but originally I had a stock converter. Made full (anywhere from 6 psi to 25+ psi) boost by 1500-1800 with the stock converter and it was much nicer with the 3500 stall. I remember one guy....I was driving down the freeway, running about 65, guy next to me honks his horn like he wants to run 'em....I blew him off. I come back up to him later on, just gave him a s***t eating grin, and spooled...and boiled the tires....at 65+ mph in third gear. I miss that car....but be prepared....with that much power on tap, you're going to want a good block. With traction, you'll blow the 11 second ETs right out of the water.

Supercharger under the hood of a Maverick is going to be tough to do. Turbo--everything fits under there, it's quiet, smooth, the turbocharger eats up a lot of exhaust noise, and best of all, they make great power. If you've never driven a turbocharged V8...you haven't lived. The whistle, the power and torque...they are mind boggling.

Only time I ever ran my '74 Maverick 2 door at the strip, I had it on a bad tune (junk in the carb, failing fuel pump)...left at 2-3 psi boost, hit the throttle and as soon as it got up to 18psi (where the wastegate opened) it started to miss and fart...so I let off. Still clicked off a 1.54 60' time on slicks. 1/8 ET was something like 14.80/28 mph. A few weeks later, I was playing around out here in the neighborhood and it broke the 2nd block (split down the middle) and that was the end...my brother bought the car from me, a fellow FM'er bought the turbo, headers, and all the associated stuff from me, and I got my brother's '84 Mustang coupe in partial trade. I came out pretty good on the deal with teh Mustang, but my brother wanted the Maverick badly.

 

[71hotrodpinto]

Roush has complete engines carb to pan,alt,water pump, flywheel, starter,msd dist, wires plugs. Near ready to drop in. With a 2 year 24,000 mile WARRENTY and dyno sheet. Pricey im sure. Check this one out, it makes 515hp 500tq 351 based stroker.
http://www.roushperf.com/pdfs/402R.pdf

Also hooker has 1 5/8 long tube headers for a 351w maverick although, yes it will probably be a tight squeeze.
http://www.holley.com/6901HKR.asp

Good luck!

 

[71hotrodpinto]

Hey mave man i totaly agree that the sleeper way to go is to turbo , especially with todays technology. But with a 302 you have that block spitting issue approching the 500 hp mark. Sounds like you were pushing 600 hp or so,WOW. As far as the rumble that will be apparent with a 500hp small block, if you put some quiet turbo style mufflers or maybe some borlas etc, youll sound just like a 'cammed' 302. Then the 'corvette' guy wont take you seriously, then will be even sweeter when you dust him off.
As far as the 8 inch not taking it just read the article on this website on the 67 notchback mustang that there pushing over 450 hp with slicks and a posi turning high 11s with upgraded 'Dutchman' axles.
If you run slicks+posi on 500 tq you might have issues. Playing on the street however is a non-issue. It will be fine if you dont abuse it.
Have Fun and WELCOME
Robert

 

[mikemustang289]

dusting a new vette (non Z06) won't take and extensive amount of power or even a stroker for that matter. There are a bunch of ways that will get you there but some are more expensive than others. Just keep in mind its not just the engine, this is an entire combo you'll have to put together. 450hp will possibly require an aftermarket block in 302 form which isn't cheap. Upgrading your fuel system is a definite must as well. Suspension worK?....I bet. Unless you're running a decent drag radial on the street it will be hard to keep up with a new vette. low 12's on street tires is 11's on slicks.

I would just keep it simple, keep the 302, possibly stroke it 331 maybe, get a decent trans with matched convertor, aftermarket heads/cam etc..... at least a posi, proper gears and aftermarket axles.

 

[tbirdz12]

Good stuff guys. Lots of different ways to skin a vette.

The sound wont be a concern. I think it would need some rumble otherwise this car wouldnt get a second look.

I like the 'Mild" motor, with either the NOS or Turbo, so its really street friendly but can git when you need it.

Maybe 450 RWHP is too optimistic, but i was aiming a little hign incase the combo fell short.

That 450 is a number thrown out by one of the pure stock racers to get me in the low to mid 12s on stock appearing
tires.

Ive been inclined to stay with the 302 due to more room and less chance of having to hack up the shock towers.

So i see 3 options that i think im interested in, order of ease of construction.

1 - 450 crank hp crate 331 or 347 motor. (Pushing it i know)
2 - Milder crate (say 350 hp) + 150 shot
3- Same 350 ish hp motor plus turbo (which i know squat about)

Finding headers that fit and work is also an unknown for me.

thanks
tim

_________________
'75 Maverick 4-Door 302, C4

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tbirdz12 on 5/11/06 10:34pm ]</font>

 

[Motorhead]

I'm sure my pickup weighs more than your Maverick and I can squeeze off a low 13 second run on street tires with only 350hp... I think if you could make 450ish crankshaft hp (much more realistic) you'd have no problem hitting mid 12s on street tires. I think if I were you I'd go for option #1 and go for NA 450hp 331... Nitrous is cool and all, but you never get to use it on the street unless you've got some way of opening the bottle while still in the driver's seat.

Go to AFR's web site http://www.airflowresearch.com/ and click on "Dyno Tests" and "Articles" at the top for some good strong already tested combinations. They've got a couple 302s making 420-450hp that don't look all that radical. At the bottom of the articles page is the big head shootout that MM&FF did, if you look at the Group2, Part4 you will see dyno tests of their 331, which many of the heads were right in the 450hp ballpark on that combo.
_________________
'86 Bronco fullsize, 460, E4OD
'85 Ranger, 340hp 289, T5

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Motorhead on 5/11/06 11:45pm ]</font>

 

[bmcd66250]

I ran a combo similar to your #2 above for a lot of years. Ran good but refilling the bottle and making sure it is always filled is a pain.

 

[tbirdz12]

On 2006-05-11 09:08, bmcd66250 wrote:
I ran a combo similar to your #2 above for a lot of years. Ran good but refilling the bottle and making sure it is always filled is a pain.

What headers will work for the 302's?

Thanks
Tim

 

[bmcd66250]

I have an old pair of Blackjacks, now Dynomax. A lot of guys use the Hooker 6901.