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ok this is the first time i really got to play with my 460 since it got put in. well it starts up real easy when its cold but when it gets hot and i turn it off and then try to start it back up. it cracks real slow then dies. i thought it could of been the battery, the battery is plenty big and i slow charged it over night for at least 8 hours.

this morning it fired right up, went around the city for a few minutes then came home. went in side for a drink of water then went out to cruise around some more, but just to think that the starter won't turn the motor over much to start it. i thought the battery must of died again (only cuz i did leave on the light for a whole day straight)

i come home after work from the recruiting office and cranked it up right up and it fired. i cruised around for 20 minutes and went home to take a **** in the bathroom, came back out and it wouldn't crank very much to start it.

i bet you if i went out there in 30 mins, it'll start.


can the starter get overheated and not want to start? i can tell you right now that when i check the trans fluid the dipstick is HOT HOT HOT. the motor isn't overheating, it runs at 185-190 with a 180 stat.

my headers are from crites, it doesn't seem as if the hedders come too too close to the starter. i was able to pull it in and out with no problem when i replaced the start up after first initial start up of the motor.

whats up? grounding? i do only have 2 8 guage wires as ground.
 

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Starter is getting heat soaked from the engine.The problem is really the solenoid,do you have it on the starter or the fender well?You might try getting a heat shield or wrap for the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
the solenoid is on the firewall.

do you think heat wrap would really work on a starter? doesn't that cancel the warranty like on headers?

do you think this is the main problem?

so you think there is a heat shield for my application or they are pretty universal?
 

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Mine cranks right over no problem but it takesa few seconds to fire it up.And if its been sitting a little bit like maybe 5 minutes or so it will fire right up like its supposed to.

But if its been sitting there a little bit (LONGER THAN ABOUT 5-10 MINUTES) it will blow out what smells like RAWL gas when it fires up.

So im lost as to what its doing.But i can tell you it did it before the MSD ignition so im thinking i need a carb spacer made of plastic to insulate the carb is the only thing i can think of.

I can also tell you that adding a switched FULL 12 volts to the coil with my duraspark 2 did nothing.So i dont know.But if you get any more info or solve your issue let me know as well.
 

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Well you may have your timming to far advanced , or you can quit fooling around w/the old starter and go to a mini high torque, that seems to be the ticket.
 

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I run a mini and have no problem.If theres not a heat shield made for your app there are wraps that will work on any starter.
 

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GMKiller: What if your carb has a slow leak, and when you run it for a while then shut it off, the left over fuel pressure leaks through the carb somewhere and pools fuel in the manifold. If its flooded, it would also be hard to start.

But Xoliex's problem and TheGMKillers sound different, The first one sounds like a heat-soak problem. And no, a heat shield wont void a starter warranty, as long as its just a shield and not something that sticks or glues onto the starter.
 

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Olie, Pardon my ignorance...I did not read the entire post...

Just wrap the starter...not the headers


Larry had a similar problem...it ended up being the fuel pump I do believe.

Jeff Given
 

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Discussion Starter #9
i backed up the timing a little bit and it still does it when it gets hot. i drove around for 15 minutes and came back home, turned it off waited 30 seconds and it stated right up, i rna it fo 1 minute then turned it back off. tried to crank it, crank eh eh eh ehe eh.

went inside to do laundry for 10 minutes, went outside and it fired right up. vroom vroom vroom!!!!

whats up?

header wrap should be next? it does seem to be that the start is getting hot but the heades really don't get all that close to the starter,
 

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If funds permit get a mini high torque starter.Summit part # PWM-9182 is similar to what I run and runs about $170.
 

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On mine it was heat soak to the starter combined with a too small cable from the solenoid. I already had a mini starter. A heat shield from Jegs or Summit is pretty cheap $15, it looks like an insulated bag, not like the header wrap. I also used it in the tubular form on the cables where they go near the headers. I also ran the ground strap directly to the starter mounting bolt. Even with all that it will occasionally trun slow for a second or too on rela hot days after running hard.
 

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where is your battery mounted?as temp increases so does resistance,make sure your batt +ve lead is of suitable size,with good clamps,and run dual earths.is your engine running a insulator between carb and manifold?heat soak can vapourize fuel in the bowls,causing flooding and hard starting.i wrapped my starter in reflective heat sheet,made a BIG difference.
 

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i've got a couple F700 and F800 trucks with 370 - 460 ci and they do the same thing - checked timeing, new battery, charges 14 volt, 2+ starters apeice,heat sheilds in place, new cables, solenoids, etc -- the only way i can cope with these is not to let someone drive them that will stall it when its loaded -- doesnt fix the prob - just barely makes it livable
 

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My 429 thunderjet used to do this in my pickup truck.I put a really heavy gauge starter cable and battery cables on it as well as a 1000CCA battery.This cured the problem for me but it would still crank a little slow sometimes when you just let it sit for a minute or two(like filling up at a gas station).A heat sheild for the starter should help as well.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: frdnut on 6/29/04 10:28pm ]</font>
 

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You have to replace your starter. Every time the field gets hot the starter acts as if your battery is dead.This has happened to me with 2 different vehicles.It should solve your problem!
 

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On 2004-06-29 16:29, falconerr67 wrote:
You have to replace your starter. Every time the field gets hot the starter acts as if your battery is dead.This has happened to me with 2 different vehicles.It should solve your problem!
I disagree.I had a brand new starter and still had the problem until I did the above fix.It may be the starter but its not a for sure thing.This is a common problem on big blocks with headers.
 

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I'd like to reinforce that comment. The other thing I changed was to "00" welding cable for ground and hot lead right to the solenoid on the mini-starter. I have a trunk mount battery by the way and it became essential. Be sure to solder the ends, not just crimped.
 

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ok this is the first time i really got to play with my 460 since it got put in. well it starts up real easy when its cold but when it gets hot and i turn it off and then try to start it back up. it cracks real slow then dies. i thought it could of been the battery, the battery is plenty big and i slow charged it over night for at least 8 hours.

this morning it fired right up, went around the city for a few minutes then came home. went in side for a drink of water then went out to cruise around some more, but just to think that the starter won't turn the motor over much to start it. i thought the battery must of died again (only cuz i did leave on the light for a whole day straight)

i come home after work from the recruiting office and cranked it up right up and it fired. i cruised around for 20 minutes and went home to take a **** in the bathroom, came back out and it wouldn't crank very much to start it.

i bet you if i went out there in 30 mins, it'll start.


can the starter get overheated and not want to start? i can tell you right now that when i check the trans fluid the dipstick is HOT HOT HOT. the motor isn't overheating, it runs at 185-190 with a 180 stat.

my headers are from crites, it doesn't seem as if the hedders come too too close to the starter. i was able to pull it in and out with no problem when i replaced the start up after first initial start up of the motor.

whats up? grounding? i do only have 2 8 guage wires as ground.
My two cents. My 88 F350/460 had the same problem. I had the timing set at 12 degrees with the spout pulled. RUns reall strong and COOL at that setting. BUt, when the engine was warmed up and I stopped, it cranked REALLY hard. It was cranking against cylenders that were firing as if the timing was way to far advanced. I got out and backed the distributor off about 10 degrees and it cranked like crazy and started but with the ignition that far retarded i, of course, ran like crap and overheated easily.

The solution was to replace the ignition module. The instructions were very specific about applying the dielectric grease to the module to make sure th eheatsink has good conductivity. That fixed the problem. Just for grins, I cleaned up th eold dried up dielectric grease on the OLD igntion module, applied a generous layer of dieelectric grease to it and stuck it back. No more problems.

I don;t know the circuit design of the module but something about that poor electrical connection of the old module caused the "brain" to advance the timing to a point the engine would not crank against the early firing cylinders.

For whatever mystery of 12V Auto ELectronics, it also reduced coil operating temps
 

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They did it when only a couple of years old. If you still have the Delco style starter from GM get rid of it. You can buy aftermarket mini type or get one from Ford for a 95 F-250/350. It's a mini and wire it up properly. I had a 95 F-350 and when pulling a camper in the summer it would be so hot I thought the paint would melt off the hood. Be it always cranked fine. Somewhere around 1975 I replaced the starter on my 72 LTD with one from a 302, one of the holes had to be a nut and bolt and it's still working. You can also bolt in a 351/400 starter. Good starter cables and battery and your good to go except for bad modern gas which has a tendency to boil easily.
 

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So, I have an 89 f350 with a 460 block. She has many issues right now. But this is the one that drives me crazy. I'm going with a bad distributor and bad fuel pumps (which I know are going bad). When I have to use her I bring an Ice pack with me and if I put it on the distributor, next to the little sensor thingy that's on it. (Edit: the ignition control; I knew that... Lol) After about 10 minutes to 30 minutes she will fire right up. Also, I blew my water pump on a hot day in the desert pulling a trailer... With the air conditioner on... I didn't push it all the way off for some reason. Anyway, I had to take the top end apart and repair all the seals. But I limped her back 100 miles with an internal leak. I think this is what caused the issue or compounded it. Anyway, I'm gonna try all of the suggestions and I'll post my findings. It May also be spark related... Just found my heat shields for the plugs in a box of random old parts. If that's the culprit we can all have a good laugh at my expense. Cheers!
 
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