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Remove the front most lifter pair, spin the oil pump, and observe the oil flow coming out of the oil supply hole in the lifter bore. It should be more than a trickle.
 

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But where is the oil hole when it's in the up position? Is the oil hole uncovered even just a little? Your picture of the lifters you pulled up in post#70 shows 2 ribs in the oil cavity of the lifter. This to me would restrict oil flow around the lifter itself and to the pushrod/rocker.
 

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Discussion Starter #123
But where is the oil hole when it's in the up position? Is the oil hole uncovered even just a little? Your picture of the lifters you pulled up in post#70 shows 2 ribs in the oil cavity of the lifter. This to me would restrict oil flow around the lifter itself and to the pushrod/rocker.
She's close, like 0.015" close but this is by math alone and totally dependent on empirical measurements I've taken... which are subject to some deviation and assumes 0.512" of travel, or lift, as advertised for the cam. Note that I have not observed more or less oil exiting the top of the bore depending on state of lift i.e. more at full lift than not but given the mechanical forces involved with a running engine it sure could be possible.

Also note the ribs do not extend all the way to the bore but rather half way between the lifter body and the bore.

166495
 

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I'm still almost wondering if it comes back to the oil galleys aren't clean enough. The cross over in the back feeds both lifter sides and if there's a restriction in there, that will cause reduced oil flow.
Unless I clean, it ain't clean enough. I've had machinists tell me they clean it when done machining it, but if always found garbage in the galleys after they "cleaned" it.
 

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Discussion Starter #126
I'm still almost wondering if it comes back to the oil galleys aren't clean enough. The cross over in the back feeds both lifter sides and if there's a restriction in there, that will cause reduced oil flow.
Unless I clean, it ain't clean enough. I've had machinists tell me they clean it when done machining it, but if always found garbage in the galleys after they "cleaned" it.
Thanks Ricky.

While I had that top plug out I both bottomed out a piece of rod and looked inside with the borescope. Of course I couldn't see along the horizontal section along the RH side but what I could see down where it intersects was wide open. I think doing as Dennis suggests will help put a finer point on the oiling path. Just waiting for the sealer to cure on the plug. If this one leaks I'm pulling out the epoxy and not looking back.
 

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lol...Dont forget that lift at the cam gets multiplied by the rocker....your lifter probably only travels about .320......I know you know that, but this thing is like a merry-go-round and ya wind up a little dizzy. Try your scope through the fuel pump hole like Ricky suggested, to spy out that last plug if the oil volume is still absent when you get to run the pump with #1 lifters removed. Very cool diagram BTW.
 

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Discussion Starter #128
lol...Dont forget that lift at the cam gets multiplied by the rocker....your lifter probably only travels about .320......I know you know that, but this thing is like a merry-go-round and ya wind up a little dizzy. Try your scope through the fuel pump hole like Ricky suggested, to spy out that last plug if the oil volume is still absent when you get to run the pump with #1 lifters removed. Very cool diagram BTW.
Thanks StuW.

Yes I knew that... in the back of my mind but couldn't put my fingers on the actual number when rushing to update the diagram so just went with what I had as worst case. And you are spot on in your estimate - the actual number is .322. What's a couple'a thou amongst friends right?

Here's the updated diagram:

166504
 

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Discussion Starter #129
Here's a video of oil flowing at #1 exhaust, all other lifters except #1 intake are in their bores (I think it's L-R: EIEIEIEI). It appears to me there's more than enough flowing to service the rockers (if what that Bernoulli guy says is true)... but if I were an expert I wouldn't be 129 posts deep into a forum thread now would I. :) At least I hope not.

Does this appear to be a customary result or does it look anemic and/or indicative of an oiling problem upstream of the lifters?

Thoughts, comments?

Thanks all! And thanks for sticking with me on this unfortunate but albeit necessary journey.

 

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Discussion Starter #133
What does it look like at the back of the block?
I was wondering that very same thing Ricky:


Now we know.

Because I like experimenting, and a glutton for punishment in this case it seems, I also took one of the old solid flat tappet lifters, shimmed it up in the bore and put the oil to it:


And for extra, EXTRA credit I put together a comparison of the old lifters vs. the new:

166513


To be honest I'm not sure what all this may or may not tell me though I think I can conclude at this point an obstruction in the oil path is pretty unlikely. It doesn't however rule out a leak somewhere... unfortunately. It's one thing to push oil through an unobstructed open tube, it's quite another to put it under operating pressure.

Without question the old lifter is flowing more oil than the new roller lifter. Enough to make a difference? I don't know.

Also noteworthy is starting with #4 and working my way up to #1 I observed flow in each exhaust bore while reinstalling the lifter pair behind it. Flow was noticeably less as I moved up to #1 but I think this would be expected unless the total surface area of the oil band is comparable with the surface area of the diameter of the galley, not to mention flow is being bled off by each lifter in the line. The oil hole is larger and the oil band narrower in the solid lifter as compared to the roller lifter I should mention.

It seems to me, and maybe someone can help me, these roller lifters are bleeding oil down through the body to the roller. Is this how they're supposed to work? I'm assuming yes so as to keep the roller lubricated?

Thanks all!
 

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AFAIK rollers get lubed by splash just like flat tappet lifters.

Still doesn't look like enough flow/pressure to me.

Is there an oil pressure sending unit/switch/pressure gauge tap at the oil filter adapter?

Pull that off and run the drill.
Be prepared for a big mess.
The oil should squirt out of there and hit the ceiling. (if it's pointing up)

Edit:
also it sounds to me like your drill does not "load down" when it starts pumping/pressuring the oil.
Every engine I have primed either by hand or with a drill, when driving the pump,
after a few turns the pump drive gets very stiff to turn and loads down the drill (or speed handle).

Maybe the pressure relief valve in the pump is stuck open?
 

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Just wondering again. Thanks for the time and effort to humor us, what does theeeeee, very last lifter look like for oiling with all the others in? That would be at #5cly.
Interesting thing is that SBF theoil galley goes down the lifter row, and to do this it hais to flow around the lifter's oiling collar, (for lack of a better word). 429/460s it goes down the lifter row, but off to one side and there for doesn't require the lifter collar for oiling down the line.
 

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I am going to guess the oil passage plug in the front of that lifter bank is still in the shop that put the motor together, or in your oil pan, especially since the closer you get to that blow-hole the less oil you get.
 

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Just wondering again. Thanks for the time and effort to humor us, what does theeeeee, very last lifter look like for oiling with all the others in? That would be at #5cly.
Interesting thing is that SBF theoil galley goes down the lifter row, and to do this it hais to flow around the lifter's oiling collar, (for lack of a better word). 429/460s it goes down the lifter row, but off to one side and there for doesn't require the lifter collar for oiling down the line.
Oh, lol, yes...if #5 is a trickle, maybe both plugs are missing?
 

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Discussion Starter #139
AFAIK rollers get lubed by splash just like flat tappet lifters.

Still doesn't look like enough flow/pressure to me.

Is there an oil pressure sending unit/switch/pressure gauge tap at the oil filter adapter?

Pull that off and run the drill.
Be prepared for a big mess.
The oil should squirt out of there and hit the ceiling. (if it's pointing up)

Edit:
also it sounds to me like your drill does not "load down" when it starts pumping/pressuring the oil.
Every engine I have primed either by hand or with a drill, when driving the pump,
after a few turns the pump drive gets very stiff to turn and loads down the drill (or speed handle).

Maybe the pressure relief valve in the pump is stuck open?
There is the oil pressure take-off at the oil filter. I have no doubt doing as you suggest will have the result described given the pressure developed (55psi)... and that Bernoulli guy.

Yes the drill does load down. In the video of the open lifter bore you can hear I incrementally increase drill RPM. That coupled with the open bore makes it sound as you suggest. In the second video (the one with the old lifter installed) the system is primed so the drill is loaded from the get-go.

Relevant to that second video your comments made me realize a flaw in that test, that being I don't think I had the lifters in #1, the result being that's probably what the flow out of the old #4 lifter would be, more or less, if that front plug were indeed missing. I'll have to re-run that test. Makes me wonder if I can't plug the galley at #1I to eliminate it as a point of concern.

EDIT: Nor I think did I have a lifter installed in the #4I position... totally invalid test I'd say, will re-run.

Just wondering again. Thanks for the time and effort to humor us, what does theeeeee, very last lifter look like for oiling with all the others in? That would be at #5cly.
Interesting thing is that SBF theoil galley goes down the lifter row, and to do this it hais to flow around the lifter's oiling collar, (for lack of a better word). 429/460s it goes down the lifter row, but off to one side and there for doesn't require the lifter collar for oiling down the line.
I haven't really focused on #5E given I can physically see the galley plug and confirm it doesn't leak. Also, at least in this last set of burned rockers that one exhibits the least amount of burned-up-ness (technical term) focusing instead on the bank I can't confirm.
 

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Discussion Starter #140
I re-ran the old solid lifter test, this time with all lifter bores filled with a lifter:


What's most notable to me I think is how much oil is not flowing through the roller lifter beside the solid. Maybe I should have given it more time to fill the galley and maybe I should go back and do the same thing with the roller lifter for comparison, we'll see, but I've never seen that much oil flowing from any of the rollers including in that position. In fact that lifter, #4E, was the first to gall on the second set of lifters. Let's keep in mind there's 55 psi confirmed at that position.

One piece of good news (depending on the context) is I was able to confirm the front lifter galley plug on the RH side is intact and not leaking. There's a hole on cylinder bore face of the block, just below the top right head bolt where I had access with the borescope to see the plug and the fact that it's dry. Sadly I couldn't maneuver the borescope to confirm same with the main galley plug or anywhere below it.
 
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