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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I opened up a c4 that i'm working on the other day and the forward planetaries had a roller bearing on the inside of it. Iv'e been reading everwhere and have never heard of them having roller torrington thrust anywhere in the trans. it also has a spacer my question is. is this normal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ok so this is a tad old question but searching i couldn't find a site that works anymore on how to rollerize the planetaries. I sorta punches the roll pins threw and the top that has the small pin in it broke!
 

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SLOWJOE,
It is a lot of work to rollerize a C4. You need a lathe at least and in the end you really don't need a rollerized transmission unless your engine is producing over 600 hp. If you have that much money in your engine then spend some on a good rollerized transmission or on the parts modified for use with roller thrusts. If you are a machinist then you can do the work yourself. If you have never operated a lathe then go back to school and learn how to operate one. After you have gone through the class you will know what kind of lathe to get and how to use it. Then you can build a rollerized transmission on your own.
Paul
 

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You dont rollerize the planetaries with a lathe. Its all done on a mill. You need a rotary index or divider head and a 7/16 adjustable reamer in addition to the 7/16" end mill . Ive done a few and its critical to get the indexing of the extra gears if you are adding them or they wont mesh with the planetary.

To be honest is easier to do most of the rollerizing procedures with a mill and a rotary indexing head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
On 2007-02-20 17:53, PaulS1950 wrote:
SLOWJOE,
It is a lot of work to rollerize a C4. You need a lathe at least and in the end you really don't need a rollerized transmission unless your engine is producing over 600 hp. If you have that much money in your engine then spend some on a good rollerized transmission or on the parts modified for use with roller thrusts. If you are a machinist then you can do the work yourself. If you have never operated a lathe then go back to school and learn how to operate one. After you have gone through the class you will know what kind of lathe to get and how to use it. Then you can build a rollerized transmission on your own.
Paul

I know how much work it is iv'e been reading and trying to understand stuff. I'm no novice at machine work. If i had alot of money i wouldn't mind buying stuff but i'm just some poor guy trying to upgrade parts i thought thats what these forums were for to learn? I know how to run a lathe, the question i was working at was what size bearing to run for the planetaries all the old threads had sites that were not working anymore. Iv'e got well over 600 ponies under the hood.
 

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Do whatever you want but your'e not going to add needle bearings to a C4 planetary with a lathe. Its a milling machine operation. Youve got to deepen the recess where the planetaries ride. Then your going to add a needle thrust bearing. The planetary cage isnt very beefy to begin with so by removing metal you will weaken it further for your needle thrust bearings. I'm sure people do it all the time. I'm also sure its not needed or beneficial. Some people say that 6 planetaries arent needed either . Theyre wrong. If you double the planetaries you halve the thrust applied to each planetary making the needle thrusts unnecesary. In any case if you do rollerize the planeteries there are no commonly available needle thrusts. You'll have to use 1/2 inch ID thrusts and make spacers to use the oddball Ford planetary center shafts with the needles. Your'e better off buying a $200 6 pinion planetary than trying to monkey around with adding needle bearings to a 3 pinion which isnt going to add strength to the planetary cage. There is no need to run 6 pinions and needle thrusts I dont care how much power you are making. It wont make the car run faster or make the tranmission live longer.

I run 900 HP though a C4 with a 6 pinion planetary. Pushes a 3600 lb car into the 9's. Still looks like the day it went in. Rollerize the rest of the transmission. The planetary set only needs the bearing between the sun and the planetary cage done. You can do that with a lathe.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mikeandnatasha on 2/22/07 3:41pm ]</font>
 

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Yeah i run the P.A 6 gear sets .Reason is they have the runs on the board and work.
For a mild application i have added lube grooves under the thrust in a 3 gear set and it seems to be holding up nice.
 

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On 2007-02-21 13:10, SLOWJOE wrote:
I know how much work it is iv'e been reading and trying to understand stuff. I'm no novice at machine work. If i had alot of money i wouldn't mind buying stuff but i'm just some poor guy trying to upgrade parts i thought thats what these forums were for to learn? I know how to run a lathe, the question i was working at was what size bearing to run for the planetaries all the old threads had sites that were not working anymore. Iv'e got well over 600 ponies under the hood.
Yes you need a mill to do it, no you do not need an indexing head. Yes the centering ring is a pain because it is tiny but so what. You have the time and skills, get it done.

I did mine in a vise, get the pin at the top and centered and mill out as shown.


The torringtons are easy to get, use extra thrust washers from Ford planetaries, they are thinner and require less milling
Pic of bearing and spacer


pic of all interneal parts



6 pinion planetaries are not needed in anything, no one here has ever broken the planetary gear only worn them into the body.
I look after 3 trannies, the slowest is my 10.30 3100 LB car, a 9.30 2700 lb car and a 9.10 2300 lb car and they all run a rolerized planetary with absolutly no issues.

Like I said but $50.00 worth of bearings and get to work. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks for your reply i'm gonna try this out if it don't work then i'll buy the 6 gear one, I guess it worth a try. thank you!
 

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Who said you can't rollerize a planet in a lathe? Here is my version which is holding up nicely.





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Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V 12.32 at 111mph
Robin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 408C 4V 10.50 at 127mph



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: clevelandstyle on 2/23/07 7:20am ]</font>
 

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On 2007-02-22 16:19, clevelandstyle wrote:
Who said you can't rollerize a planet in a lathe? Here is my version which is holding up nicely.





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Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V 12.32 at 111mph
Robin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 408C 4V 10.50 at 127mph



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: clevelandstyle on 2/23/07 7:20am ]</font>
I have to grab a planetary gear one day and try that myself, much simpler way of doing it, no silly spacer ring.
 

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Clevelandstyle,
Do you use a machine tool grinder like me?
I have a friend that swears he can cut those gears with a carbide bit but I can't do a decent job without my grinder.
Paul
 

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No. I cut them with carbide. A big sturdy lathe helps.
 

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That must be my problem! my lathe is for working on guns and is not all that big (18" x 40). I have used the large engine lathes but I originally bought my lathe to build guns and size wasn't a big consideration - I did remember to buy more than I felt I needed but it won't cut a lot of things with carbide that the big lathes do. Thats why I got the machine post grider. It even cuts glass! haha (my wife broke a favorite vase and I gingerly chucked it in the lathe and turned it nice and slow while making slow passes. I was amazed - after polishing with emery cloth it looked new. You can do anything with a lathe - properly set up - that most can do on any other piece of machine tooling. I also have an adjustable angle feed table that I can use on it with the head holding mill tools. It was originally purchased to do dovetails in rifle barrels but I have since up graded it to take cylinder heads.
 
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