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On a street driven 347 with a Comp Cams XE274HR, what is going to be the difference in HP and Torque between AFR 165 and 185 heads?

Anybody have a 347 with 165's? How do you like it?

RW
 

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165's are better on 289-302 motors, the 185's will work good on a street 347.
 

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I used to be a big pusher of the 165s, but anymore I think the 185s are probably the best bet for anything non-stock, and 205s for the more extreme. After all, before the AFR heads came around, the 'mild' heads (Windsor Jr, Performer, etc.) were always 180cc and the 'performance' heads were always 200+ccs... so I'm sure the AFR 185's won't be sluggish at all down low. The intake manifold will probably have a bigger impact on that than 165 vs. 185 cc heads.
 

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I use the AFR 185 heads on everything I build with less than 500 HP. That should work out real good for you.
JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
 

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rwvaught:
I am running the AFR185's on my 347 with the XE274H (flat tappet version of your) cam. I am using a Vic Jr intake and 650 VS carb in my '66 Mustang. It runs high 11's. Most people suggest using a 750 on a nicely built 347. I have one of those to test out soon. I'm hoping the 650 is a bottleneck.:)
 

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Depends on what it's going in and what you wanna do with it. I guess the simplest answer would be, RPM or Stealth if it's going in a bigger car with higher gears for mostly street duty, Vic Jr. for a lighter car with low gears and more track time. Either way, I'd go with a 750 carb. Or, a nice Weiand tunnel ram with dual carbs for show and go :)
 

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Just a thought......

Take a look at Ford Racing GT-40X heads they are about $300 to $400 cheaper than the AFR's and out of the box Flow right with the CNC'd 165's and with a light blend the would flow the same as the CNC 185's.

Imagine that.........

This is based on published numbers from both manufactures with AFR cheating as usual using and 1 3/4 exhaust pipe and a 4.060 bore.....

Just to start an argument the AFR's aren't all that and a bag of chips......LOL
 

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They would NOT EVEN BE CLOSE

JOE SHERMAN RACING ENGINES
I wouldn't expect to hear any different from someone who sell's them......

It would be interesting to see a non-biased dyno Test, Say a Factory 5.0 short block, Performer RPM, and a simple E303 cam, between the 165's and the GT-40X heads. Out of the box parts and no Ringers......

I'd be willing to bet it would be pretty darn close and neither head would run away.

Then apply the $300-$400 savings you realized with the Gt-40x heads into some bowl and port work..........
 

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Proabably about 20HP with that cam. Should still be plenty snappy down low too.
Brian
bingo!!

I would get 185s over 165s. I bought the 165s cause I was going to use my stock pistons but ended with a new short block.
 

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I wouldn't expect to hear any different from someone who sell's them......
Dang, do you know who you are talking about?

Joe Sherman does not need to come here to harp AFR heads. He's simply stating what he has personally observed. He's been chasing horsepower for over 40 years, and doesn't need to spam this message board to get business!

The Motorsport GT40-X head isn't even in the same ballpark as the AFR.

Some people like to -hate- the AFR since they are so popular... but they got popular for a reason. They are GOOD!

I purchased my first set of AFR heads back in 1995. They were a set of 195 Chevy heads for a 383 I was building for a street rod. They came in and I was AMAZED! The CNC port work looked AWESOME. I had never seen a head that literally needed NOTHING DONE TO IT. I had taken the grinder to every set of heads I had ever purchased.... until this set. It was great! Here was a set of heads that you could literally take out of the bag and install straight onto the engine!

Back then, I ordered straight from AFR, and they went through all the options over the phone... drilled for temp gauge, springs, retainers, valves, etc... and they came with my name hand written on them with a Sharpie. :) They had no plans on ever producing a Ford head back then. (I asked them) But, once the Fox body mustang really took over, they jumped right in.

To this day, over TEN years later, the competition has still not caught up! Some offer limited CNC offerings, but the price is high. AFR has GOOD heads at EXCELLENT prices.... once the quality of the port work is taken into consideration.

Only bad side... You used to have to be good with a grinder to be one of the FAST cars, but now, all you need for a DAMN good set of heads is a valid credit card!

Joe Sherman isn't going to tell you a load of crap in order to sell you a set of heads. He is GRACIOUSLY donating some of his time to come on here and help people out. I would suggest, that when Joe speaks, you LISTEN. ;)

GT40 X heads are flat out JUNK compared to the AFR. That's just how it is.

Good Luck!
 

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Good Post n20mike. Joe is the man and has years of experience. He knows what works and what doesn't. I know, I listen when he speaks.
 

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I wouldn't expect to hear any different from someone who sell's them......

It would be interesting to see a non-biased dyno Test, Say a Factory 5.0 short block, Performer RPM, and a simple E303 cam, between the 165's and the GT-40X heads. Out of the box parts and no Ringers......

I'd be willing to bet it would be pretty darn close and neither head would run away.

Then apply the $300-$400 savings you realized with the Gt-40x heads into some bowl and port work..........
Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords did do a head swap only comparison.2500rpm -6000rpm
Mild hyd roller, rpm air gap intake
GT40 353HP AFR 165 396HP
GT40 363TQ AFR165 378TQ
Cost per hp gt40 $21.25 afr165 $14.43 your $300-400 saving can go towards the NOS kit ;^)
AFR165 are a good value, period
 

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Dang, do you know who you are talking about?

Joe Sherman does not need to come here to harp AFR heads. He's simply stating what he has personally observed. He's been chasing horsepower for over 40 years, and doesn't need to spam this message board to get business!

The Motorsport GT40-X head isn't even in the same ballpark as the AFR.

Some people like to -hate- the AFR since they are so popular... but they got popular for a reason. They are GOOD!

I purchased my first set of AFR heads back in 1995. They were a set of 195 Chevy heads for a 383 I was building for a street rod. They came in and I was AMAZED! The CNC port work looked AWESOME. I had never seen a head that literally needed NOTHING DONE TO IT. I had taken the grinder to every set of heads I had ever purchased.... until this set. It was great! Here was a set of heads that you could literally take out of the bag and install straight onto the engine!

Back then, I ordered straight from AFR, and they went through all the options over the phone... drilled for temp gauge, springs, retainers, valves, etc... and they came with my name hand written on them with a Sharpie. :) They had no plans on ever producing a Ford head back then. (I asked them) But, once the Fox body mustang really took over, they jumped right in.

To this day, over TEN years later, the competition has still not caught up! Some offer limited CNC offerings, but the price is high. AFR has GOOD heads at EXCELLENT prices.... once the quality of the port work is taken into consideration.

Only bad side... You used to have to be good with a grinder to be one of the FAST cars, but now, all you need for a DAMN good set of heads is a valid credit card!

Joe Sherman isn't going to tell you a load of crap in order to sell you a set of heads. He is GRACIOUSLY donating some of his time to come on here and help people out. I would suggest, that when Joe speaks, you LISTEN. ;)

GT40 X heads are flat out JUNK compared to the AFR. That's just how it is.

Good Luck!
Got to love AFR's marketing !!!

I respect Joe's Opinion, But he's one builder in a sea of them, and I would think even Joe Sherman would agree their is more than one way to reach a goal............ I even know a few other builders that wouldn't waste their time with AFR's.......Yes, I agree AFR makes a decent product, but they are not the only one's that work.

I've run down alot of cars with AFR's using "Junk" so I must just be Lucky to beat such a supreme product? LOL Right......
 

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Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords did do a head swap only comparison.2500rpm -6000rpm
Mild hyd roller, rpm air gap intake
GT40 353HP AFR 165 396HP
GT40 363TQ AFR165 378TQ
Cost per hp gt40 $21.25 afr165 $14.43 your $300-400 saving can go towards the NOS kit ;^)
AFR165 are a good value, period
I'm curious to see the test, do you have a link to it? plus your numbers aren't adding up. Based on heads only the AFR's at about $1400 = 3.53 per hp and the GT-40X's I'm talking about are $1050 = 2.97 per hp.........LOL Just poking !!
 

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I'm curious to see the test, do you have a link to it? plus your numbers aren't adding up. Based on heads only the AFR's at about $1400 = 3.53 per hp and the GT-40X's I'm talking about are $1050 = 2.97 per hp.........LOL Just poking !!
In that article, their cost per HP was based on the INCREASE in HP, from the stock heads, which made ~300hp. But that article used the GT-40P's, not the X's, a much different head.

I have to agree with everyone else here though. Some people don't believe there can be one product that is head-and-shoulders superior to most others, but I think in the automotive aftermarket it happens all the time. Dry flow numbers at 28" H2O are only an indicator of performance, they don't tell the whole story of how heads will compare to eachother when run on an engine. Just because the X's flow the same #s as the AFRs doesn't mean they will make the same power... there's all kinds of other variables such as combustion chamber design, port volume, and port shape, that all play a part. Honestly, I have no problem believing that there is one brand of heads out there that out of the box are superior to all others. However, when you throw manual porting into the equation, that's a big variable, that honestly is impossible to account for.

And if you think the magazines have an agenda when dong a head shootout, who do you think really pays them more for advertising, AFR, or Holley, or Edelbrock? I'll bet the advertising dollars from AFR are only a fraction of what the other two spend! Wouldn't it be more lucrative for them to massage the results in Edelbrock or Holley's favor? Yeesh, why does everything have to be a conspiracy theory for some people.
 
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