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Discussion Starter #1
So a friend wanted me to do some easy work on his 500 and I drove it the short distance home without any accessorie belts on the motor - I pulled over a few times and spun the water pump to cool the engine, it was only a few miles.



Aparently someone tried swapping in a GM 1 wire alternator as that and a pile of brackets are in the back seat. There is no way the alternator I've got is going to fit - it hits the cylinder head before the belts get close to lining up. GRRR



Doing some light research I've found that the water pump has a stud on it where some of the newer water pumps are threaded. I've got a triangle bracket with a hole in it, a curved adjuster bracket and another straight bracket that has a few holes and a notch in it - I'll take pictures of these tonight. I'm not certain where the alternator goes - up high by the cylinder head or down low by the oil pan..? There is a forward facing threaded bolt where someone has that ground wire incorrectly mounted - Ive got some brackets and bolts from my 74' motor, I'll see what my collection of parts can get me. I'm going to head to a junkyard after work today to grab myself a 3G.



I plan on swapping in a 3G alternator as I've done the swaps a few times on my 74' Bronco. Make it fit, bridge the wires and hook it up to the starting post and 12v switched power and you are golden. That is easy - I'm just curious if the brackets I've got will work or if I need to make something... Which I can totally do as I've got access to welders, plasma cutters, powder coating equipment etc etc.


It looks like I can mount the long pivot bolt off that forward facing bolt in the block and use a curved adjuster on the top for a pivot point. Will any 3G fit - I know the different size vent holes in the casing will determine the amperage output, but that isn't a concern for me, I just want the damn thing to work :D

Thanks for the pointers - everything seems to work great in the car and it is much faster than I would have expected. I'm going to do a tune up, drop in a pertronix ignition to rid myself of the points ignition and a buch of general clean-up. The brakes seem like utter crap though, I have to pump the brakes upwards of 10 times to get pressure and if I let up all of the way I loose everything. Fluid level is perfect - I have not looked too far into it, but I'm going to start with swapping in another M/C.

Kyle
 

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Try bleeding the brakes before you swap master cylinders. On the Alt. swap go to the FE forum and do a search and you will find a complete diagram with what parts are needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Try bleeding the brakes before you swap master cylinders. On the Alt. swap go to the FE forum and do a search and you will find a complete diagram with what parts are needed.
He said he bled the brakes, but I don't think the rears are working. If I put up and hold pressure it doesn't bleed down, so the master could be ok...

Do you mean http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/? That site is a PITA to read!

This looks promising- I could easily make that lower holder out of some steel I have laying around if need be...
 

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I don't have a problem with that site. If you change the water pump to a later one you can use a late 60's early 70's pick-up alternator brackets. That way you don't have to fab anything and the pulleys will line up. Use an alternator from a early 90's Taurus V-6.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't have a problem with that site. If you change the water pump to a later one you can use a late 60's early 70's pick-up alternator brackets. That way you don't have to fab anything and the pulleys will line up. Use an alternator from a early 90's Taurus V-6.

I missed the "read thread" button - much better now. lol

I don't really want to chase parts around and start swapping water pumps. I have ZERO idea where I can get parts and I have to buy stuff now and hope I get paid later, so I want to avoid that.
 

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I would suggest a short-ear 3G from '94+ Mustang 5.0 or T-bird V6 (among others) as the mount spacing is 'standard' (same as all earlier Ford 1G and 2G alternators), whereas the Taurus has the same case diameter but longer ears for that wide-spaced application. The Taurus version will still work, but usually requires bracket mods where the short-ear usually does not.

Also, when low-mounted (pivot on cylinder head) the long-ear version will usually hit the lower radiator hose. This is not an issue with the short-ear, and is why you see the Taurus alternator upside-down GM-style in many installations, like the photo posted earlier.

The forum Search function is not working for me right now, but I have posts about all this and wiring instructions for both alternator/alternator and generator/alternator conversions, and for dash light, ammeter, or 1-wire versions. Other forums have posted my info, so you might find it elsewhere as well, though it may not be complete. FWIW

David
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the info - I pulled a 3G from a newer Taurus that looks to be in sweet shape. I didn't know the SN95 Mustangs had smaller case 3G's - If I can't get it to fit I can always use it on one my my 4x4's. I'll have to zip the serpentine pulley off it and put the pulley off the GM alternator on there and I hope the belts will line up and allow the alternator to clear the cylinder head. It looked like it would fit when I got back and was poking around under the hood with a flashlight, but only time will tell.

I'm not going to hook the alternator up to any of the car's wiring - I hate the fact that a blown generator bulb can cause the system not to charge. I'm going to just hook the switched 12v up and run a fused link to the starter seloniod and call it good. Any problems with running it that way?

My Early Bronco is setup that way without issues-

Is it high mount or low mount when I use that forward facing bolt on the block as a pivot point? (just for my refrence) - any suggested mountings for this?

Kyle

I would suggest a short-ear 3G from '94+ Mustang 5.0 or T-bird V6 (among others) as the mount spacing is 'standard' (same as all earlier Ford 1G and 2G alternators), whereas the Taurus has the same case diameter but longer ears for that wide-spaced application. The Taurus version will still work, but usually requires bracket mods where the short-ear usually does not.

Also, when low-mounted (pivot on cylinder head) the long-ear version will usually hit the lower radiator hose. This is not an issue with the short-ear, and is why you see the Taurus alternator upside-down GM-style in many installations, like the photo posted earlier.

The forum Search function is not working for me right now, but I have posts about all this and wiring instructions for both alternator/alternator and generator/alternator conversions, and for dash light, ammeter, or 1-wire versions. Other forums have posted my info, so you might find it elsewhere as well, though it may not be complete. FWIW

David
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You're telling me, lol. I didn't care though, this thing drives really nice and I've got a feeling I'll be able to cruise it from time to time just for helping out.

It was funny how fast the motor cooled down - it took a few minutes to get back down below half temp. At at red arrow my brother hopped out and spun the pump for me while I was waiting for it to change :D



Driving a couple miles without a water pump belt is kind of retarded. Getting out once in a while and spinning the pump by hand is also kind of retarded...

Doing this for your friend is AWESOME. Getting paid or not, working on a Ford for a buddy is a nice thing to do :)
 

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... I didn't know the SN95 Mustangs had smaller case 3G's ...
Not the case size - that's the same. It's the mounting ears that are longer on the Taurus that cause issues. In all other respects they are the same.
I'm not going to hook the alternator up to any of the car's wiring - I hate the fact that a blown generator bulb can cause the system not to charge. I'm going to just hook the switched 12v up and run a fused link to the starter seloniod and call it good. Any problems with running it that way?
You can do it that way, or simply add a resistor between the generator lamp wires. That's how alternator lights work. A 10-cent 470-ohm resistor anywhere across the YL/BK and BK/GN wires or bulb socket is all that's required for full function. This way the system charges whether the bulb is good, blown, or not even there, yet lights if there is a failure. Your method is more involved, and although it works to make it charge, it also leaves you with no charging indicator light.
Is it high mount or low mount when I use that forward facing bolt on the block as a pivot point? (just for my refrence) - any suggested mountings for this?
The pic below is the low-mount, where the adjuster arm is under the alternator, and works with any year water pump. The earlier pic is the top-mount with the adjuster arm above it, but only works easily with 1965+ water pumps. If you have an earlier water pump, then you can still do it, but will usually require some creative adjuster arm bending and welding. I also prefer the low mount for clean looks.

David

The factory "low-mount' version of mounting:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the info, I went to the U-Pull lot and the first thing I saw was a 91' Foxbody with an intact wiring harness, so I had to pull that for a friend. I also got an upper intake for my trail truck (I have an 86' car EFI upper on a 351W and it's got a tiny TB opening, the Mustang intake and TB is much larger). After I pull the parts and did a happy dance I found a great 3G that was a Motocraft rebuild - score again! On my way out I found two 5.0 Explorer with GT40 heads and intakes but didn't have the time to pull them-

Alternator pulled, pulley zipped off and some grinding of the case and a small chunk of my finger later I got it to fit. I took it up to the auto store after I got it clocked and fit and ran some tests- 130A is a bit of an upgrade :D


The casing sits damn near against the cylinder head, but the belts line up, so I don't care. I got some of my leftover Early Bronco parts and used the bolt and lower adjuster up top - seems to work just fine. The lower bolt is only single shear, but being that all of the force is up top, I'm not going to worry about it.


I'm going to ditch the bolt and spacer I used on the bottom for a long regular bolt, that long rod gets close to the belt.

Here is where everything ended up after the clocking - real accessable.


The belts I got were a bit too short, so I'm going to get some longer belts tonight and hopfully do some cruis'n, always loved these cars. I would love to get a two door with a clean body, do a spartan interior and drop in a 408W with a 5 speed.

I've got to figure out a ground and it looks like I'm going to have to trim or bend the battery tray to clear the alternator. I don't normally run a fuse from the alternator to the battery, but in this case I will.

Thanks for you help so far - I might want to track down the correct brackets or make something, maybe just get a peiece of steel from the one water pump bolt to the lower pivot bolt. I'm going to need to get the alternator tight as the belts like to squeal with these heavy duty alternators. If I get some belt squeal I'm going to sandblast the pulley so it will bite extra hard.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ack, most of my pics died. Well - its been together for some time and been working flawlessly. I ended up buying the car for a grand, my bro cruises it from time to time and ended up putting a pair of 12's in it and XM - makes for a great cruiser.

Here it is next to my newest addition to the fleet - 66' Monterey
 
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