[Cman]

I'm on another MB (local Mustang board) and currently I'm in a bit of a disagreement with someone else there so I would like your opinions here. I asked the question on my enemy vehicle MB and people there believe I am correct so let's hear what the Ford faithful have to say. Read on.

The topic being discussed is about torquing spark plugs. This person claims that he torque his plugs with a torque wrench and that he notices a difference vs. tightening them up normally with a ratchet or wrench (which is what I do).

Now I don't have a problem with him tightening his fasteners (or plugs) with a torque wrench, all the more to him. As some of you might know getting a torque wrench in an F-body or any other vehicle where room is an issue to tighten spark plugs is next to impossible so I do it by feel. I can tell when I've tighten the plugs enough so that it's not too tight yet is not loose to blow out the cyl. but he insists that you see a gain of 1-5hp by torquing your plugs with a torque wrench.

He even says you can see the difference between properly torqued plugs vs. properly tightened plugs on a ocilliscope and I'm saying no way.

This guy must be older than me, the last time I used a scope for any car was going back to the mid 80's, I mean who T F uses a scope anymore?? All the shops that I've visited that had one is sitting in a corner covered up with 15+ years of dust on top of the cover.

From what I remember you use a scope to find problems with your ignition system and look for weird firing patterns especially on cars that have points and condensor (what are those again?????) but to tell the difference between torqued plugs and properly tighten plugs???? I think he's whacked on scooby snacks.

So who's right???

Tony


_________________
T.Chan

96 Pontiac Formula
01 Nissan Sentra SE, daily driver

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cman on 4/3/06 12:36am ]</font>

 

[norcal500]

I always tighten mine with a regular wrench. Never had a problem.

 

[Magic]

same here, regular wrench....just cinch it down.....even on race motors...I have never heard or seen anyone torque down their spark plugs...

I agree, I think hes whacked on the scooby snacks....

 

[rayell]

I don't torque spark plugs, but I torque lug nuts.

 

[tonys10sec306]

i dont torque mine either

 

[steharz]

well for what its worth,ive never even heard of anyone using a torque wrench on spark plugs,but then there are a lot of things i dont know,but i cant see how you would pic up power torquing them

 

[mustangboy]

I've never torqued my spark plugs either,and that goes for all of the dirtbikes,snowmobiles,outboard motors and cars I've tinkered with over the years.I think its probably a good idea but I don't see how you could get any power gains by doing it.

 

[gchero351]

Horsepower gain from spark plug torque ???? Magic said it, scooby snacks- Ask him how the power gains come in....

 

[coupe3w]

Ask him if the horsepower gain is with the same set of plugs. Tell him to do back to back comparisson on torqued vs non-torqued plugs (same plugs same cylinder). I think he got a HP "gain" if the new plugs he put in just happen to index correctly in each or some of the cylinders.

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

That old feller is on crack....
Maybe he ment to say he INDEXED his spark plugs... that WILL do something for the performance, 17 ft lbs, of torque is no better or worse than the accidintal 19 ft # you put it in by hand with.....

Tell hime to put down his crack pipe and walk away..,..

FE

 

[Beoweolf]

Some things are worth arguing about, some you argue about just to pass the time and some you argue about because you do or don't like the other person or people in the argument.

At some point, you realize its time to cut yur losses and move on to the next argument - there will always be another. This might be one of those cases. I would agree with you...but it really doesn't matter, cause the other guy has this idea firmly entrenched in his mind...you did say he has been doing the for years, so whether you agree or disagree he will keep on doing it. Even if he changes, I sincerely doubt if he'll let you "win"... just let it go.

I still know people that buy those "vortex" things you put in the carberator or air cleaner tube... they sell on late night TV ads. They are supposed to give you better gas mileage, 10% more performance and probably bring about world peace. I used to argue with them and try to set them straight...talking to a Spanish speaking Dog in Chinese about space travel using a hyper drive is more useful - cause the dog will at least look at you and try to understand what you are saying.

Either sell him some swap land in Arizona or appreciate him for the other stuff you can agree on. Arguing will just raise your blood pressure.

 

[Fordman28]

Man I though after that last plug change I was down 1 or 2 HP it just didn't fill quite that same, guess I'll have to find a scope to stick it on and check it out

WHAT A TOOL...

 

[Brian M]

So there is two questions here, does torqueing plugs increase hp, and can you tell the difference on a scope.

I would say torqueing them properly would not increase power whatsoever. I do think you will see a difference on the scope tho. The resistance of the plug would likely change slightly, as well as the capacitance. Both would show up on a scope, but if the plug is firing without it torqued, its not like its going to be creating any more power if you torque it.

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

Brian, There is no more metal contact when fully torqued than there is when just tight by hand. The resistance or capacitance as you put them both, would not change enough to read, even if read on a digital OHM/Resistance scale that could dip into the hundred thousandths of an OHM of resistance... All metals have a natural resistance to current flow, the purer the metal the less resistance an electrical current will have in order to pass through.
What I'm saying here... (I should have listened to Beoweolf....

) is: The plug will have a given amount or resistance when touching the head. That resistance will not lessen due to touching it harder. If you do not change your gap and just lay the plug against the head or hold it with a small pair of gator clips to ground, the spark crossing that gap will not improove enough to be read on any machine, that does not have the capacity to go into the hundred millionths of a volt... An oscilloscope doe not have this capacity.
That is why I believe the old fella is Thinking about Indexing his plugs and not the "Torquing" thing that's getting debated.
I wish I new where this discussion was taking place... I'l like to have him explain to me where he see's the diffrence in performance on the oscilloscope.

FE

 

[Cman]

Trust me, I'm not raising my blood pressure "discussing" this topic with him, but I am right. He can do whatever he wants just as I can do whatever I want with my ride but he stated his opinion and I stated mine and in this case my opinion is correct.

He hasn't replied whatsoever after my last post on this topic where I stated my experience on autos after he "challenged me" with his somewhat automotive experience so I guess I put him in his place.

If you guys want you can read it here, it gets interesting around page 2.

http://www.gtamc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15215&page=1&pp=10

 

[Cman]

On 2006-04-03 00:06, gchero351 wrote:
Horsepower gain from spark plug torque ???? Magic said it, scooby snacks- Ask him how the power gains come in....

Actually on the scooby snacks...........I SAID IT!!!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cman on 4/4/06 5:47am ]</font>

 

[FEandGoingBroke]

HA HA HA HA HA Excellent discussion!

Does he also realise thst his connections on his scope can also cause diffrent readings between diffrent runnings?

Ha ha ha ha ha!

That guy's a tard nut...

FE

 

[Brian M]

On 2006-04-03 14:38, FEandGoingBroke wrote:
Brian, There is no more metal contact when fully torqued than there is when just tight by hand. The resistance or capacitance as you put them both, would not change enough to read, even if read on a digital OHM/Resistance scale that could dip into the hundred thousandths of an OHM of resistance... All metals have a natural resistance to current flow, the purer the metal the less resistance an electrical current will have in order to pass through.
What I'm saying here... (I should have listened to Beoweolf....

) is: The plug will have a given amount or resistance when touching the head. That resistance will not lessen due to touching it harder. If you do not change your gap and just lay the plug against the head or hold it with a small pair of gator clips to ground, the spark crossing that gap will not improove enough to be read on any machine, that does not have the capacity to go into the hundred millionths of a volt... An oscilloscope doe not have this capacity.
That is why I believe the old fella is Thinking about Indexing his plugs and not the "Torquing" thing that's getting debated.
I wish I new where this discussion was taking place... I'l like to have him explain to me where he see's the diffrence in performance on the oscilloscope.

FE

If you torque it more, you will potentially get more contact because it would have more rotations. Also more torque would squeeze out more contaminants on the threads. Any change will change the frequency that the coil rings at, and would be noticeable. You dont measure the voltage directly, you infer the changes from the frequency differences.

 

[351ciofgrunt]

The old bloke is confusing the issue by talking about indexing/phasing spark plugs...that 'might' give you 1-5Hp but is it worth the effort?

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 351ciofgrunt on 4/4/06 10:32am ]</font>

 

[gchero351]

Dang yer right CMAN , I was so freekin tired from torquing and re-torquing my plugs to dial my car in that I didnt read it right....... now, wheres the lawnmower.........