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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry for the typo in the title, I can't edit it either

On my F100 (445 FE), I run a box and distributor out of a 75 F100

As with all Durasparks, it has 4 wires on the main harness to the box, but the other plug has 3 wires instead of the later version with 2

In other words, the plug that normally has white and red (start and run) also has a third blue wire.

Mine is like the top one in this pic, the replacements are like the bottom one. Note the top plug in each diagram, both have the white/red, one has the additional blue wire



I can't find a 3-wire black strain relief box, and research leads me to believe the blue wire isn't needed, but I can't figure out what that blue wire does.

- Can I replace the box with the standard red/white combo? The plug is the same, they just eliminate the 3rd tang and show a jumper. Some sites lead me to believe yes, but not clear
- What's everyone's opinion on replacing the box with an MSD? I have never had any issue with a Durapark and looking for long term reliability

Thanks
 

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Sorry for the typo in the title, I can't edit it either

On my F100 (445 FE), I run a box and distributor out of a 75 F100

As with all Durasparks, it has 4 wires on the main harness to the box, but the other plug has 3 wires instead of the later version with 2

In other words, the plug that normally has white and red (start and run) also has a third blue wire.

Mine is like the top one in this pic, the replacements are like the bottom one. Note the top plug in each diagram, both have the white/red, one has the additional blue wire



I can't find a 3-wire black strain relief box, and research leads me to believe the blue wire isn't needed, but I can't figure out what that blue wire does.

- Can I replace the box with the standard red/white combo? The plug is the same, they just eliminate the 3rd tang and show a jumper. Some sites lead me to believe yes, but not clear
- What's everyone's opinion on replacing the box with an MSD? I have never had any issue with a Durapark and looking for long term reliability

Thanks
The 75 module is actually pre-DURASPARK and FORD referred to it as SOLID STATE IGN (74/75).

If you will notice on the diagram, the 75 module is powered through an IGN resistor whereas the 1976 (DURASPARK) isn't. What is the Stamping I.D. No on your present box?

You're working with MOTORCRAFT and not aftermarket, right?

And yes, you can plumb MSD into the system. They will have the wiring diagram and harness hopefully.
 

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I can't find a 3-wire black strain relief box, and research leads me to believe the blue wire isn't needed, but I can't figure out what that blue wire does.

- Can I replace the box with the standard red/white combo? The plug is the same, they just eliminate the 3rd tang and show a jumper. Some sites lead me to believe yes, but not clear
Yes. You can replace your black-grommet box with a blue-grommet box, which does not have the BLU wire. The blue box DOES use a ballast resistor just like yours. The more powerful red-grommet HEI box is the one that does not use a resistor. The BLU wire is just a coil voltage sensing wire on early versions.
- What's everyone's opinion on replacing the box with an MSD? I have never had any issue with a Durapark and looking for long term reliability
I would just leave it alone. However, options are based on goals, and yours are for high reliability. Yours works. If it ever fails, you can use a common blue box in it's place.

The black box is equivalent to a PerTronix I and just replaces points. If you want a higher-performance ignition, you can get a tiny improvement from the blue box. You can get a much larger improvement from the red box - but it will require bypassing the resistor and using your choice of high-perf HEI/TFI/BlasterII style coil. Or, you can also get the larger improvement from replacing and rewiring for an MSD-style unit.

Pros and cons - Your unit is reliable and has replacements at any parts store using the blue box. For all-out performance, the HEI and multi-spark CDI (MSD style) units both do well, with the CDI having a higher rpm potential (well over 7000), and the HEI box having better economy and emissions potential. So, they are all reliable, but if upgrading, your considerations may lean towards rpm (CDI), or they may lean towards economy cruise (HEI), or toward local emissions testing if that applies now or in the future (HEI).

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks KULTULZ

It is an original Motorcraft box that I took off the truck that it came original on sometime in the 80s.

The numbers stamped on the box itself are

D5AE 12A199 A2A

The box has been working fine for me since 1986 or so, but the connectors are all broken and I wanted to replace it. Needless to say I dont have a lot of trust for the replacement boxes but I also see what could be a burn mark in the wax from below, but it's very hard to tell.

I wish i could buy another one just like it. As far as an MSD or other CD ignition, I have used them and like them, but this setup has been ridiculously reliable for 30+ years, so if I can find comparable, I'd lean that way
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes. You can replace your black-grommet box with a blue-grommet box, which does not have the BLU wire. The blue box DOES use a ballast resistor just like yours. The more powerful red-grommet HEI box is the one that does not use a resistor. The BLU wire is just a coil voltage sensing wire on early versions.
I would just leave it alone. However, options are based on goals, and yours are for high reliability. Yours works. If it ever fails, you can use a common blue box in it's place.

The black box is equivalent to a PerTronix I and just replaces points. If you want a higher-performance ignition, you can get a tiny improvement from the blue box. You can get a much larger improvement from the red box - but it will require bypassing the resistor and using your choice of high-perf HEI/TFI/BlasterII style coil. Or, you can also get the larger improvement from replacing and rewiring for an MSD-style unit.

Pros and cons - Your unit is reliable and has replacements at any parts store using the blue box. For all-out performance, the HEI and multi-spark CDI (MSD style) units both do well, with the CDI having a higher rpm potential (well over 7000), and the HEI box having better economy and emissions potential. So, they are all reliable, but if upgrading, your considerations may lean towards rpm (CDI), or they may lean towards economy cruise (HEI), or toward local emissions testing if that applies now or in the future (HEI).

David
Thanks David, very well said

Ross
 

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As Dave said, the later Blue Box will connect. This was a common service replacement as the earlier SSI boxes were discontinued and superseded.

The box you have described was D5AZ 12A199-C (DY-166-A) and is still available as NOS (GREEN FORD - E-BAY). No warranty though.

D9VZ 12A199-A was the general replacement module and I believe it has been superseded (1ULZ 12A199-AA).

The RED BOX described was EEC-I and CA only. It will produce a hotter spark.

I found (many year ago) the connectors that go on the harness. The module connectors came with the new module (except reman). I will try to find those PN's.

Oh... If the wax back shows heat damage, it is toast. Try to mount the new box standing a little higher than the OEM box and this will give better air circulation. Try to keep away from water splash.
 

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My 79 F150 has a Duraspark 2 box. You can get rebuilt ones fairly cheap. I've had to replace mine once. I think they are fairly sensitive to battery disconnects. You want to make sure you disconnect your battery before doing anything related to the Duraspark 2 module plug ins.

Can't help with that third wire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Will I have to swap two wires if i go with the later box?

Looks like the 4 blade plug needs 2 wires swapped

I wish I could find an NOS replacement, this one worked so well, and I am not confident that the non Motorcraft boxes are worth it
 

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I am going through my archives now. I think I might have it figured out.

Where did you come across that last schematic?
 

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The replacement boxes usually (used to) come with a short male/female jumper connector for those cases. Or you can re-pin some of the box connectors (not the distributors - those pins are usually molded-in), but verify the wires are actually swapped before you do, and pay no attention to the RED/WHT color swap in later pics and cars. That was a bad Ford boo boo. Use the schematic and just make sure the wires go where you think they do, no matter what the actual color is. Don't worry - if you ever come across what I'm talking about - you'll know. ;)

David

[EDIT] BTW - that D9VZ number in teh schematic is a generic supercession number for a blue box, that's listed for 49-state Ford/AMC/Jeep from 1975-1988. Numbers include: D6AB12A199A1B, D6AB12A199A2B, D6AE12A199A1A, D6AE12A199A1B, D6AE12A199A1C, D6AE12A199A2A, D6AE12A199A2B, D6AE12A199A2C, D6AE12A199AA, D6AZ12A199A, D6AZ12A199B, D6TE12A199A1A, D6TZ12A199A, D7AZ12A199B, D8AE12A199A1E, D8VE12A199A1A, D8VE12A199A1B, D8VE12A199A1C, D8VE12A199A2A, D8VE12A199A2B, D8VE12A199A2C, D9VZ12A199A, DY184, DY184A, DY184B, DY184C, DY184CDP, DY198, DY337, DY611, DY683, E1FZ12A199A, E8PF12A199AA, E8PF12A199AB, E9VZ12A199A, E9YZ12A199A, F2PF12A199AA, F2PZ12A199A, F2PZ12A199AA... and a few more.
 

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OK...

I think I have it figured out. You have to use the 1975 module(s) unless you are going to rewire/repin the harness for the later DURASPARK II module (BLUE). The 1975 module went OBSOLETE and there was no replacing PN. I was wrong in this reference earlier.

1975 saw three separate SSI modules and were converted to Service PN by Stamping ID. No. As everyone knows, FORD had trouble with the system due to mainly heat issues. The modules were upgraded by year to circumvent this problem as well as to add to performance.

The present module you have (and who knows if it was the original assembly part) Stamping ID No. D5AE 12A199-A2A shows original Service PN as D5AZ 12A199-A. This was later superseded by PN D5AZ 12A199-B and finally D5AZ 12A199-C, which is described as a six wire. The BLUE wire was eliminated on this module. All have GREEN reliefs but some literature I am coming across suggests that the later Service Replacement PN D5AZ 12A199-C may have had a BLUE strain relief. There may be two different modules under the same PN. Only a TSB of the period would substantiate/explain this.

The D5AZ 12A199-C (DY-166-B) is available NOS (GOOGLE the PN as I show it). Stay away from aftermarket and FORD REMAN.

The trouble in buying NOS there is no warranty whereas if you upgraded to the DURASPARK II module, you would (should) have a warranty.

OR, you hit a salvage yard and find a 1975 FORD with a GREEN strain relief module. D5AZ 12A199-A (which you actually have now) would have Stamping ID Nos. D5AE 12A199-A1A or D5AZ 12A199-A2A.

Does this help or do I need to go further?

BTW- Check the distributor stator. It should be BLUE in color. If it is BLACK, it was defective from the factory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OK...

I think I have it figured out. You have to use the 1975 module(s) unless you are going to rewire/repin the harness for the later DURASPARK II module (BLUE). The 1975 module went OBSOLETE and there was no replacing PN. I was wrong in this reference earlier.

1975 saw three separate SSI modules and were converted to Service PN by Stamping ID. No. As everyone knows, FORD had trouble with the system due to mainly heat issues. The modules were upgraded by year to circumvent this problem as well as to add to performance.

The present module you have (and who knows if it was the original assembly part) Stamping ID No. D5AE 12A199-A2A shows original Service PN as D5AZ 12A199-A. This was later superseded by PN D5AZ 12A199-B and finally D5AZ 12A199-C, which is described as a six wire. The BLUE wire was eliminated on this module. All have GREEN reliefs but some literature I am coming across suggests that the later Service Replacement PN D5AZ 12A199-C may have had a BLUE strain relief. There may be two different modules under the same PN. Only a TSB of the period would substantiate/explain this.

The D5AZ 12A199-C (DY-166-B) is available NOS (GOOGLE the PN as I show it). Stay away from aftermarket and FORD REMAN.

The trouble in buying NOS there is no warranty whereas if you upgraded to the DURASPARK II module, you would (should) have a warranty.

OR, you hit a salvage yard and find a 1975 FORD with a GREEN strain relief module. D5AZ 12A199-A (which you actually have now) would have Stamping ID Nos. D5AE 12A199-A1A or D5AZ 12A199-A2A.

Does this help or do I need to go further?

BTW- Check the distributor stator. It should be BLUE in color. If it is BLACK, it was defective from the factory.
KULTULZ, I am 100% agreeing with what you are saying and I think you have it nailed, but one thing doesn't match what I am seeing. The strain relief color.

Mine seems to be black






From your chart it looks like what I have may be the unidentified color for the 75-76 Breakerless SSI, which would all make sense

Let me give you some background, long-winded but it may be applicable.

I am not 100% certain that it is a factory original piece, but it would be a very good bet that it was

- I took this module off a 75 or 76 F100 with a 360 in the early 80s, it was a town highway department truck and installed it on my 71
- I assume it was factory installed, because aside from when it would have been under warranty, our family shop was the only company that would have worked on it, we had the contract for all repairs.
- The box looks to be original, and we didn't have a Ford dealer nearby so if we replaced it, it would have been with a Napa box.
- So I can't prove its original, there are a few years that it would have been out of our hands under warranty, but I think it is

Here's the rub, the truck I just took it off of, my 71, ran great, and had performed flawlessly from the mid 80s until I took the truck apart for resto this year, but the 35+ year old plastic connectors crumbled.

I was hoping to just replace the connectors, but I haven't found a good way to do it, even considering Weatherpak connectors for ease

However I looked underneath and saw a hole in the wax protector, I do not see a burn mark on the circuit board, but it's clearly got a hole in it, and the box was working perfectly, but now I am concerned



Ultimately, I don't really want an aftermarket rebuilder box, I want another original Motorcraft, or I chance this one

My guess is to find an original, I either hit a yard for the right one, or find what I can for NOS and make the wiring match.

I'll keep looking. In the end I can always throw an MSD or similar at it, but although it should be 475 hp or so, its not a high RPM motor, so I doubt I need it and I like the stock look.

Thanks and more to come
 

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KULTULZ, I am 100% agreeing with what you are saying and I think you have it nailed, but one thing doesn't match what I am seeing. The strain relief color.

Mine seems to be black






From your chart it looks like what I have may be the unidentified color for the 75-76 Breakerless SSI, which would all make sense

Let me give you some background, long-winded but it may be applicable.

I am not 100% certain that it is a factory original piece, but it would be a very good bet that it was

- I took this module off a 75 or 76 F100 with a 360 in the early 80s, it was a town highway department truck and installed it on my 71
- I assume it was factory installed, because aside from when it would have been under warranty, our family shop was the only company that would have worked on it, we had the contract for all repairs.
- The box looks to be original, and we didn't have a Ford dealer nearby so if we replaced it, it would have been with a Napa box.
- So I can't prove its original, there are a few years that it would have been out of our hands under warranty, but I think it is

Here's the rub, the truck I just took it off of, my 71, ran great, and had performed flawlessly from the mid 80s until I took the truck apart for resto this year, but the 35+ year old plastic connectors crumbled.

I was hoping to just replace the connectors, but I haven't found a good way to do it, even considering Weatherpak connectors for ease

However I looked underneath and saw a hole in the wax protector, I do not see a burn mark on the circuit board, but it's clearly got a hole in it, and the box was working perfectly, but now I am concerned



Ultimately, I don't really want an aftermarket rebuilder box, I want another original Motorcraft, or I chance this one

My guess is to find an original, I either hit a yard for the right one, or find what I can for NOS and make the wiring match.

I'll keep looking. In the end I can always throw an MSD or similar at it, but although it should be 475 hp or so, its not a high RPM motor, so I doubt I need it and I like the stock look.

Thanks and more to come
Yours is FORD (MOTORCRAFT) ID No. D5AE 12A199-A2A goes to Service PN D5AZ 12A199-A, which was the first of three in a series of supercessions regarding modules in the 1975 model run resulting ultimately in the six lead D5AZ 12A199-C. 1974 SSI has a BLACK strain relief, 1975 GREEN and 1976 BLUE (I believe - not to be confused with 1977 DURASPARK II)

It may be that the first 1975 modules carried the BLACK strain relief over from the 1974 model run. Again, TSB's would be needed to sort it out. The information may have also been included in the period MPC but was deleted in future page changes. It is also difficult to ID the harness as it was part of the engine harness 14298 and usually they were tagged for positive ID.

The hole shown in the module back is a sign of current/future failure/erratic operation due to excessive heat (whether system induced and/or under-hood). It is suggested that modules be placed on stands (spacers) to ensure full air circulation and a dielectric be applied to the base to the apron (as a heat sink).

Additionally... :frown: ..., it may be, if the late 1975 Module did inded have a BLUE grommet, that this led to confusion regarding plug and play with the later DURASPARK II module (D9VZ).
 

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While I am thinking of it-

The diagram shown in an above post-


...is not an actual diagram to rewire a DURASPARK II module into an older SSI ignition harness but to show the difference(s) in circuitry.

Shown below is a schematic which supposedly will allow one to retrofit a later module. Use at own risk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Kultulz,
Thanks for the detailed stuff

Here is what I did. I went to Rock Auto and looked it up by application for a 75 F100 with a 360. They did have a 75-76 listing that was different from the 77, and they also noted that the box was correct to replace a box with a blue lead, even though theirs didnt have one.

They have some clearance modules on sale for under 20. One box was 10 bucks.

Normally I wouldnt buy the cheap stuff, but I figured why not give it a shot for the price.

I'll see how it does, and I will mount it on stands to get some airflow under it.

If it runs decent and the timing is stable, I may buy another one to keep on the shelf until I can find an NOS one, I like the looks of the stockers.

After the new motor is running, I may swap a blue strain from the junkyard into it too, just to see how it does.

Thanks for all the great documentation
 

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Kultulz,

Thanks for the detailed stuff.
You are more than welcome and I apologize for not thanking you for thanking me... :confused: ...what?

I think the easiest way out is to either find a take-off harness or buy a fabbed one and convert fully to the late DURASPARK II module, at least while the modules are still available.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Well my $9.99 KEM Electronics 3 wire module seems to be running great.

Funny, I fired it with the old module, then put the new one in and it retarded the timing by 4 degrees. Something must be different inside, but it runs great.

I'll space it up a little for additional airflow and maybe buy a spare or two, but for now it seems to be doing great on the new 445

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/My427stang/445startup.mp4

The camera is really crappy at volume control, but the 445 runs real strong and started up without any drama. Standard for this truck, since 1984 it's been fantastically loyal
 
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