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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Here is all I could find regarding adjusting the downshifted in a 1965 COM. And I pretty much leave the rod loose, with no return spring.馃様
 

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Here is all I could find regarding adjusting the downshifted in a 1965 COM. And I pretty much lar the rod loose, with no return spring.馃様
Hello puttster,

Galaxiex's response was pretty self evident that the 1959 MX transmission is different than the 1965 MX. The 1965 uses a vacuum modulator for line pressure/shift control and doesn't use the kick down rod for that. With that your 1965 Ford service manual will not have the instructions to adjust the 1959 transmission control rod. You'll need the instructions from the 1959 Ford shop manual for that.

I do hope galaxiex responds because for my own and others edification I would like to know the procedure for adjustment. I am curious if, like the GM 700R4 and most likely the Ford AOD, you need to adjust with a pressure gauge on the line tap of the transmission and of course engine running.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I called the mech who fixed the leak by replacing the seal and he says it is probably the front pump, to leak out so quickly. He is currently too sick to work on cars but thinks he has a FMX he can give me. This might solve some issues!?!

Question: will it drop right in and link up? My 1959 MX is, I believe 35-1/2" but the 1965 MX it replaced was, I think a little longer because IIRC is needed a driveshaft change.
 

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Hello puttster,

Galaxiex's response was pretty self evident that the 1959 MX transmission is different than the 1965 MX. The 1965 uses a vacuum modulator for line pressure/shift control and doesn't use the kick down rod for that. With that your 1965 Ford service manual will not have the instructions to adjust the 1959 transmission control rod. You'll need the instructions from the 1959 Ford shop manual for that.

I do hope galaxiex responds because for my own and others edification I would like to know the procedure for adjustment. I am curious if, like the GM 700R4 and most likely the Ford AOD, you need to adjust with a pressure gauge on the line tap of the transmission and of course engine running.

Cheers
The 59 MX has a completely different throttle linkage that goes down to the trans, compared to the 65.
As installed in 1959 model year cars, it is a rather complicated Rube Goldberg contraption that more often than not,
is worn beyond a normal persons ability to repair.
DesertXL being the exception. I'm quite sure she could fix it. ;)
Beyond that....
IF and I mean a BIG IF, the 59 linkage was there and intact and not worn out, the adjustment procedure is about as complicated as the linkage itself.

I'm NOT gonna try to describe it here.
If I get the chance later, I will scan the instructions and picture (line drawing) from my service manual.
I will say, the instructions do NOT say anything about using a pressure gauge to set the linkage.

What Puttster has with a 59 MX and 65 kickdown linkage.... it's just not gonna work.
Or at least, not work properly, as intended by the Ford engineers in 1959.

Also, there is NOT a "fail safe" built into the 59 MX, if the linkage accidentally becomes disconnected.
If the linkage gets boogered up somehow..... the trans at best, won't work properly, or, at worst, the trans burns up.

Since I have, in fact, actually worked on these transmissions, and the cars they were installed in....
My experience has been that the linkage needs to near perfect as does the rest of the related, and seemingly UN related parts.
Those being... Engine mounts must NOT be worn or sagged, same with body mounts as much of the linkage is attached to the firewall AND the engine.
All this stuff NEEDS to be in proper relation to each other and NOT worn in the least.
Worn and sagging engine and body mounts cause the linkage to bind and not function as intended.

Also, if by some miracle you get the (not worn out) linkage all correctly adjusted and the engine IDLE SPEED is not correct within 50 RPM,
The trans will horrendously SLAM into reverse, and sometimes into drive.

I will say once again....

Puttster, your 65 vacuum modulator trans was FAR FAR FAR superior to the nightmare that is the 59 throttle linkage controlled MX.
Is it any wonder that it only lasted 3 years??? 1959 to 1961.

Yes, there were earlier throttle linkage controlled transmissions (no modulator), starting in 1951,
but they seem to be less common and somehow, less of a problem.
 

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I called the mech who fixed the leak by replacing the seal and he says it is probably the front pump, to leak out so quickly. He is currently too sick to work on cars but thinks he has a FMX he can give me. This might solve some issues!?!

Question: will it drop right in and link up? My 1959 MX is, I believe 35-1/2" but the 1965 MX it replaced was, I think a little longer because IIRC is needed a driveshaft change.
I don't know if the FMX he has will "drop right in" as there were several versions of that trans.
Also, there were different versions of the 59 to 61 MX trans, so depending which version of it,
and which version FMX... it's all a guess until you have both units side by side.
 

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Ok, for some STUPID reason my manual does NOT show a picture of the 1959 - 1961 throttle linkage.

That said, here are some pics of other years and models. (Thunderbird)

Just to show the goofy Rube Goldberg maze of linkages..... and at the end I typed verbatim from the manual how to adjust the 59 - 60 linkage.
I tried to scan it, but it was too close to the spine of the book and I couldn't get it to lay flat, so instead I typed it all out!
I didn't want to rip the page from the book!!!

Font Parallel Slope Map Schematic


Map World Font Parallel Twig


Organism Font Parallel Auto part Line art


AND FOR GOOD MEASURE... Here's what SHOULD BE on Puttster's 65.

Gesture Font Map Slope Art



SEE HOW SIMPLE that ^^^^ is compared to the earlier stuff?

Ok, here's the adjustment procedure...

I typed this verbatim from my manual.

THROTTLE LINKAGE ADJUST
1959-60 Ford V8 & Mercury

1. With engine stopped, disconnect throttle control rod and carburetor connecting link from accelerator assembly.

2. Insert a 录鈥 gauge pin through gauging holes.

3. Lift carburetor connecting link to its normal operating position. Maintain forward pressure on it so that carburetor throttle lever is held solidly against idle adjusting screw. Then adjust length of link so that threaded sleeve can be freely fitted into accelerator lever. From this position, rotate sleeve one full turn to lengthen the link. Remove 录鈥 gauge pin and connect link to lever.

4. Check alignment of gauge pin holes. Open throttle and permit throttle linkage retracting spring to return linkage to its hot idle position. The pin must now enter freely; if not, readjust carburetor adjusting link to obtain a free fit of gauge pin.

5.Remove gauge pin and adjust throttle control rod. Pull upward gently but firmly on rod to hold transmission lever against its internal stop.

6. Rotate turnbuckle or clevis until pin freely fits accelerator lever. Lengthen throttle control rod by 3 陆 turns.

7. Connect throttle control rod to accelerator lever.

8. Adjust connecting link to obtain a pedal height of 3 陆鈥.

WOW.... JUST..... WOW.... can you follow all that?!?!

I'm sure it's "simple" if you have the car with all it's linkage intact, sitting there in front of you......

Good luck!
 

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Ok, for some STUPID reason my manual does NOT show a picture of the 1959 - 1961 throttle linkage.

That said, here are some pics of other years and models. (Thunderbird)

Just to show the goofy Rube Goldberg maze of linkages..... and at the end I typed verbatim from the manual how to adjust the 59 - 60 linkage.
I tried to scan it, but it was too close to the spine of the book and I couldn't get it to lay flat, so instead I typed it all out!
I didn't want to rip the page from the book!!!

View attachment 173703

View attachment 173704

View attachment 173705

AND FOR GOOD MEASURE... Here's what SHOULD BE on Puttster's 65.

View attachment 173706


SEE HOW SIMPLE that ^^^^ is compared to the earlier stuff?

Ok, here's the adjustment procedure...

I typed this verbatim from my manual.

THROTTLE LINKAGE ADJUST
1959-60 Ford V8 & Mercury

1. With engine stopped, disconnect throttle control rod and carburetor connecting link from accelerator assembly.

2. Insert a 录鈥 gauge pin through gauging holes.

3. Lift carburetor connecting link to its normal operating position. Maintain forward pressure on it so that carburetor throttle lever is held solidly against idle adjusting screw. Then adjust length of link so that threaded sleeve can be freely fitted into accelerator lever. From this position, rotate sleeve one full turn to lengthen the link. Remove 录鈥 gauge pin and connect link to lever.

4. Check alignment of gauge pin holes. Open throttle and permit throttle linkage retracting spring to return linkage to its hot idle position. The pin must now enter freely; if not, readjust carburetor adjusting link to obtain a free fit of gauge pin.

5.Remove gauge pin and adjust throttle control rod. Pull upward gently but firmly on rod to hold transmission lever against its internal stop.

6. Rotate turnbuckle or clevis until pin freely fits accelerator lever. Lengthen throttle control rod by 3 陆 turns.

7. Connect throttle control rod to accelerator lever.

8. Adjust connecting link to obtain a pedal height of 3 陆鈥.

WOW.... JUST..... WOW.... can you follow all that?!?!

I'm sure it's "simple" if you have the car with all it's linkage intact, sitting there in front of you......

Good luck!
Howdy galaxiex,

Thank you for posting the instructions and pictures. You could have probably taken a picture of the text page and posted that in order to save time retyping it all out. :)

Sooooo yuppers that system and the way it is conveyed is meant for the simple minded mechanic to adjust it properly without the need for fully understanding what's involved. However whilst that is one way of presenting information it precludes any possibility of modifications and fully understanding the needs of that Throttle Pressure Control linkage on the old MX.

It appears from the diagrams and descriptions and I'm taking some liberty as I've never seen the original system in person that there is a minimum offset of the Throttle Pressure Control linkage needed then the rest of the angular travel must match the remaining angular travel on the carburetor throttle plate from hot idle position to Wide Open Throttle.

That minimum offset obviously sets mainline pressure in the transmission for minimal normal pressure at hot idle position then increases as the throttle increases so the pressure and shift points track roughly the apparent load on the drive line.

I can definitely see that any bending in the linkages or installing a different intake or carb or worn/saggy mounts in any part of the car will affect this. That design is sketchy at best and that is being gracious.

Geeze I consider the FMX a doorstop at best but it would be an improvement over this.

What would have been nice is if Ford included the main line pressure readings at hot idle then at full throttle and at least any modifications could be made to meet those requirements with assurance you're not operating at low line pressures for the apparent load and inducing constant slip in the clutches which of course is a transmissions quick death sentence.

I am not meaning to hi-jack this thread in any means, rather shed more light on this particular subject.

Cheers
 

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I am not meaning to hi-jack this thread in any means, rather shed more light on this particular subject
I like your shedding. :LOL: It's getting brighter in here, with a few hair balls rolling around... Continue with the diagnostic analysis! It is odd though, that the pressure spec's (or other oblique reference) aren't in the appendix for that FSM section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
OMG what a nightmare. Yes, all I have for linkage is that 1965 downshift rod, with no return spring. I have a feeling the transmission repair can replace 100% but if I hook it up to the 65 linkages It will be dead in a thousand miles. Probably that is what caused my surging and maybe even the front pump bustout!
Good grief. Now what.
 

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OMG what a nightmare. Yes, all I have for linkage is that 1965 downshift rod, with no return spring. I have a feeling the transmission repair can replace 100% but if I hook it up to the 65 linkages It will be dead in a thousand miles. Probably that is what caused my surging and maybe even the front pump bustout!
Good grief. Now what.
Where is your original transmission?
 

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.........................

Geeze I consider the FMX a doorstop at best but it would be an improvement over this.

What would have been nice is if Ford included the main line pressure readings at hot idle then at full throttle and at least any modifications could be made to meet those requirements with assurance you're not operating at low line pressures for the apparent load and inducing constant slip in the clutches which of course is a transmissions quick death sentence.

I am not meaning to hi-jack this thread in any means, rather shed more light on this particular subject.

Cheers
Having built more FMX units than I can remember,
and considering it was in production First Gen 1967 - 1972 and Second Gen 1973 - 1981
with millions of units installed in passenger cars and light trucks over its production run.
Heck, I've even built units that were installed in a stationary power plant and running a ski lift! Obviously very old school as ski lifts are now all electric.
Also built units that were in Airport "mules" hauling baggage carts and towing large aircraft.
There are probably a lot more industrial applications where it was used, that I am not aware of.

It's "not that bad" of a unit. JMO of course.... :)

Built properly it can handle up to about 400 - 450 HP.
500 HP would probably be pushing the limit, if not over it.
I "think" it's also a bit more efficient than the energy vampire C6.
Although the C6 is still my favorite trans.

To my mind, the FMX is somewhat more..... refined.... shall we say, than the older pre 1967 FX and MX units.

Heck, TransGo even has a full manual shift kit for for the dinosaur FMX.

I'll post up a pressure check chart later for the older throttle rod (non vac) controlled units.

Cheers!
 

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Here's a pressure chart for the linkage controlled units.

Sorry, it might be a little hard to read.

View attachment 173712
Howdy galaxiex,

That's perfect! Anyone who performs adaptions or modifications can use that to set up their own deal. As long as you meet the line pressure requirements at those throttle openings it will be set up properly. It's funny how this MX used this method to control line pressure, then vacuum modulators took over through the latter 60's and 70's, then when automatic overdrives started coming out, they (GM and Ford at least, not sure what Chrysler was doing and really do not care) went back to this arrangement before going fully electrically controlled.

Thank you for posting this!

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
I exchanged the original 65 MX for the 1959 ten years and maybe 3,000 miles ago.
I have found a 64 MX but it is $300 +shipping. plus it does not have the linkage and plus I think it is 2" shorter than mine so I would need another driveshaft... so I have the feeling that going that way and maybe the FMX way is running down a rabbit hole.

Is there a way I can use that control pressure chart and Galaxiex's instructions to get the 59 adjusted properly with my 65 downshift rod?? I guess one thing is to put a return spring on.

PS Thank you guys, for the help here.
 

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Having built more FMX units than I can remember,
and considering it was in production First Gen 1967 - 1972 and Second Gen 1973 - 1981
with millions of units installed in passenger cars and light trucks over its production run.
Heck, I've even built units that were installed in a stationary power plant and running a ski lift! Obviously very old school as ski lifts are now all electric.
Also built units that were in Airport "mules" hauling baggage carts and towing large aircraft.
There are probably a lot more industrial applications where it was used, that I am not aware of.

It's "not that bad" of a unit. JMO of course.... :)

Built properly it can handle up to about 400 - 450 HP.
500 HP would probably be pushing the limit, if not over it.
I "think" it's also a bit more efficient than the energy vampire C6.
Although the C6 is still my favorite trans.

To my mind, the FMX is somewhat more..... refined.... shall we say, than the older pre 1967 FX and MX units.

Heck, TransGo even has a full manual shift kit for for the dinosaur FMX.

I'll post up a pressure check chart later for the older throttle rod (non vac) controlled units.

Cheers!
Allo allo galaxiex,

Thank you for sharing your opinions and experience on the FMX. I am just a picky person, especially after working as a testing engineer for the automotive and heavy truck industry. I've had the pleasure of evaluating good designs, bad designs and meh designs. Some bad designs even squeak through testing and make it to production of which Chrysler seems to champion that cause in my opinion and why I am not impressed with them.

The problem I have with the FMX is scalability and parts availability. I have only rebuilt one several years ago and in doing the research there's not a lot of options for them as far as handling more static or dynamic torque differential. Add to that problem even factory parts were a pain to acquire. I do believe back then we did use Fatsco to have the old bands relined as they didn't have any premade. The FMX also needed the fiber washers in between some of the rotating parts and I couldn't find any available. Luckily I had two old defunct FX's sitting in the scrap pile and I pillaged the parts out of them.

Another unfortunate design of the FMX is the cast iron case and the unnecessary weight it presents. A C4 would be a better choice in my opinion that meets parts availability and scalability for later upgrades.

When Ford consolidated the old Borg Warner FX and MX lines they created the FMX, and so the FMX is just an amalgamation of the old FX and MX. The one cool thing, at least I thought, was the old FX and MX transmissions had the rear pump. I thought this was a cool feature as you can flat tow the car without having to remove the propshaft. The rear wheels would spin the rear pump and keep up line and lube pressure. In addition if you were get the car moving fast enough, you could drop it in drive and spin the engine over if your battery was to low to use the starter. It was an esoteric feature and I like that.

Cheers
 

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I exchanged the original 65 MX for the 1959 ten years and maybe 3,000 miles ago.
I have found a 64 MX but it is $300 +shipping. plus it does not have the linkage and plus I think it is 2" shorter than mine so I would need another driveshaft... so I have the feeling that going that way is running down a rabbit hole.

Is there a way I can use that control pressure chart and Galaxiex's instructions to get the 59 adjusted properly with my 65 downshift rod?? I guess one thing is to put a return spring on.

PS Thank you guys, for the help here.
Hello puttster,

Now that galaxiex was so kind to post the line pressure requirements at the throttle settings, why not just have your old MX fixed and have the mechanic assure that whatever mechanical means you have for your kickdown meets the aforementioned requirements. Easy peasy.

Just thoughts.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Yes, that is prob the better way to go. The instructions GalX posted (are indeed nuts) are for the 59 linkage setup. How would one (maybe me) go about setting the 65 control rod/downshift mechanism that I have? The rod runs from the transm to a set screw on throttle lever at the carburetor,
Previously could get a downshift with strong but less than full acceleration in 2nd or 3rd gear, is that is how the downshift is supposed to behave? could I set the screw to do that and call it good?
 

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Yes, that is prob the better way to go. The instructions GalX posted (are indeed nuts) are for the 59 linkage setup. How would one (maybe me) go about setting the 65 control rod/downshift mechanism that I have? The rod runs from the transm to a set screw on throttle lever at the carburetor,
Previously could get a downshift with strong but less than full acceleration in 2nd or 3rd gear, is that is how the downshift is supposed to behave? could I set the screw to do that and call it good?
Hello puttster,

Without personally seeing your existing mechanical contrivance for your kick down arrangement I wouldn't want to venture a guess on whether it is appropriate or not. The idea behind the pressure readings that were posted is that at those throttle positions listed your mechanical mechanism would be adjusted to yield those pressures. That means investing in a pressure gauge on a long hose connected to the line tap on the transmission and verifying.

Cheers
 
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