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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for feedback, input and just general thoughts about the Powerforce harmonic balancer. I've read the previous threads on this forum and the write-ups from various vendors about it. In short- If you've mounted one of these on your generator powered FE, how'd that go for ya?

Below is background stuff for ya -stop here if it reads like I'm rambling.

Thanks for any help ! Norm

Methinks my under-hood harmony is off so I'm shopping for a new balancer. Since I eventually plan on updating to an alternator, and likely, power steering, the Powerforce 80009 balancer's write-ups I've read suggest that it has enough expanded application for my use -in other words, I can use it with the single sheave gen pulley now, then later, I can use the supplied spacer and add the alt & late 60s style p/s pulley(s).

Yep, I know about Damper Doc, and so forth. And no, my Gal is cruise-only, certainly no 6,500 rpm shifts (the rpm limit of that damper) and has never even spun a tire. My wife even giggles over that. ;)

N
 

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I haven't tried one on an FE, so I can say. My question is why you think you have a balancer (damper) issue? Does it matter if you replace it and the problem does not go away? If it does matter, then list your issue with good descriptions and under what specific conditions the problem happens.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The short and sweet answer for ya is :

Oh trust me, I think she's kaput (see longish version below). If I were to be in doubt, I know right where to go and ask that question (on this fabulous forum!). Hey, I enjoy automotive diagnostics so I thrive on the "hunt" (by my own methodology), ...and yea, probably miss it (diagnostics) a bit more than I care to admit. ;)

Some of my car's 48 year old parts will no doubt outlive me, but it's damper isn't gonna be one of them.

For now let's see what kind of replies show up ..... if I need to elaborate more I certainly will.

Thanks much! Norm

The longish version -if you like reading people's stories:

In my past life, circa 1974, I was a Ford dealer back-shop 'kid', started as a tech, then service writer, service manager, b/shop manager, then parts manager and so forth --all in various stores over the course of 25 yrs. So, I saw a bit during those years.;)

Now that I am self-employed, have more free time, I relish the challenge (again) of working on old cars (only) and I like to think I have a scientific kinda mind (could be a tumor tho!).

That said, and using the scientific method:


  • Ask a Question - check
  • Do Background Research - check -but there's always more to learn!
  • Construct a Hypothesis - check
  • Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment -ahh, I need a "control" part to do that.
  • Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion -coming soon!
  • Communicate Your Results -will do !
So then, applying the above to my car's situation I need a known good balancer to use as a "control" to test my theory. Farting around in junk yards, asking nice forum folks to go measure their damper for me to see if I have 'slipped my disc', and/or prowling eBay for used ones will likely yield ones in various states of slippage and hence, uselessness.

Sure, buying a Damper Doc one would work, or the various repop Ford sites, but then in the future, when I wanna update the pulley drive system, go from gen to alt, and add power steering, that "G1" style damper will need replaced. My thought was to find a damper that has some "expanded application". If I have watched one too many Star Trek episode -meaning I am looking for something purely fictional but has a very "wow kewl" factor, oh well, I gave it a try.:)


Lastly, we all know this generation of damper was an achilles heel for Ford, to boot. I'm almost looking for aaany reason to ditch the b*tch as it is, lol.

After thinking about this too --I was taken back to my parts counter days remembering selling lots of these. Plus.....last spring when I tromped thru a massive all-Ford yard, I chuckled when I saw FE after FE still in the vehicles ....dampers long gone because the cranks snouts were soo rusted -reminded me of that era.




I haven't tried one on an FE, so I can say. My question is why you think you have a balancer (damper) issue? Does it matter if you replace it and the problem does not go away? If it does matter, then list your issue with good descriptions and under what specific conditions the problem happens.

David
 

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If It Were Me... :rolleyes:

I would have the stock balancer rebuilt (new elastomizer material (polyurethane), pinned and indexed.

There are answers to FEAD (Front End Accessory Drive) later on. If you are going to use period correct accessories, pulleys should be the least of your problems.
 

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Are you SURE you're NOT JC Allison in disguise? WOW you really get winded :)

Answer one: If you think you got a bad balancer and you're a fairly good judge of good and bad, then sent it to Damper Dudes down in Redding Cali and get it rebuilt for $60 bucks or so.

Answer Two: If in the future you need to upgrade and your original pulley don't work, you Replace the PULLEY not the Harmonic Balancer....


I hope that what Kul and I said will help :) He said it one way I said it another, the answer is there somewhere :)
 

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Are you SURE you're NOT JC Allison in disguise? WOW you really get winded :)
Hey Gary,
I represent that statement! :)

BTW, aren't FE Engines internally balanced?

JC
 

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LOL Glad i wasn't the only one wondering that!!
Hey mon Deb,
I've been kind of enjoying reading the pretty well written posts by Minn. He spells well, has decent syntax and punctuation. Is able to make complete sentences and paragraphs.

Now if we could just get him get over wanting to use all this over-hyped "after-market" equipment, and thinking that somehow a Damper for an FE has to be some "gawd-awful" special piece, he MIGHT turn out to be an exemplary 64 Galaxie enthusiast.

Only time will tell.

JC
 

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You are correct sir.
Hey mon Deb,
Minn said that he was a Ford Tech at one time. You'd think he would know THAT already, and NOT be so concerned about having one of them "super-duper" Powerforce jobbies.

I was told by the old guy who used to run Onalaska's ONLY AutoPartsStore before NAPA bought him out and went bust a couple of months later that there are SOME Engines that if they don't have a PROPER Damper will break the Crank Shaft. But that the FE wasn't one of them.

Here in the very near future, will be sending Ms. American's ORIGINAL Damper off to the Damper Doctor to be rebuilt. Going to cost $65.00 plus shipping.

At present, the Damper that is on the 3.14 seems to be doing just fine, but would LIKE to have not only the ORIGINAL Damper, but also the ORIGINAL Water Pump back on the front of the old Gal.

Anyway, hope you and the ShotRod are doing well.

JC
 

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Like everyone else I haven't used one either but if I were to get one, that 80009 is the one I'd get. My three pulley set will bolt on to it and according to my figuring, they will match up to my stock AC, Alt and PS pulleys. It is modeled after the 1968 balancer, with the spacer allowing the fit to cover all years.

It comes with a shorter pointer as well, which you will need. I am not sure how the pointer bolts up to our timing covers, as the post -67 models use a different bolt layout for attaching the pointer.

Nevertheless, I would get it.
 

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Hey mon Deb,
Minn said that he was a Ford Tech at one time. You'd think he would know THAT already, and NOT be so concerned about having one of them "super-duper" Powerforce jobbies.

I was told by the old guy who used to run Onalaska's ONLY AutoPartsStore before NAPA bought him out and went bust a couple of months later that there are SOME Engines that if they don't have a PROPER Damper will break the Crank Shaft. But that the FE wasn't one of them.

Here in the very near future, will be sending Ms. American's ORIGINAL Damper off to the Damper Doctor to be rebuilt. Going to cost $65.00 plus shipping.

At present, the Damper that is on the 3.14 seems to be doing just fine, but would LIKE to have not only the ORIGINAL Damper, but also the ORIGINAL Water Pump back on the front of the old Gal.

Anyway, hope you and the ShotRod are doing well.

JC
I think mine is still the same damper from way back before it was mine and the car had the heck ran out of it. :)

The shotrod is doing well other than she wants her plastic spacer back when it's warm out. Sometime in the near future we will make the trek to FE's house and swap them back. Made the trip to Eugene, OR and back in less than 24 hrs just fine other than i bout froze coming home. The clouds were good insulators on the way there.

You should be happy he has good grammar, the rest of us don't want to bother with complete sentences and all that jazz!! ;)

As for a new or dif style damper, we all have our things we want to replace or upgrade. Well most of us, some, like me, are stuck in the past with our points systems and in some cases, generators.
 

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I think mine is still the same damper from way back before it was mine and the car had the heck ran out of it. :)
Hey mon Deb,
Ms. American's ORIGINAL Damper had the Out Ring come loose from the Inner Ring. Fixed that by using Extra Thin Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) and Zip Kicker. BUT, the problem was that there was no way to use a Timing Light on it. Finally had to get another one which came from the Damper Doctor.

The shotrod is doing well other than she wants her plastic spacer back when it's warm out. Sometime in the near future we will make the trek to FE's house and swap them back.
What has the ShotRod presently got between the Carburetor and the Intake Manifold?

Made the trip to Eugene, OR and back in less than 24 hrs just fine other than i bout froze coming home. The clouds were good insulators on the way there.
Was up in Eugene, Oregon during the Christmas Holidays in 1975. Was in Lorrie Van Haul. It was cold then too.

You should be happy he has good grammar, the rest of us don't want to bother with complete sentences and all that jazz!! ;)
I know.

As for a new or dif style damper, we all have our things we want to replace or upgrade.
There is no accounting for "tastes".

Well most of us, some, like me, are stuck in the past with our points systems and in some cases, generators.
The keeping of these OLD Gals in original condition HAS some amount of virtue to it. When I was younger, THAT attitude hadn't yet developed, and the result is a vehicle like Lorrie Van Haul. So I have both philosophies in the vehicles here. Ms. American gets to, as much as possible, stay the same, while Lorrie Van Haul gets to change when necessary.

BTW, Lorrie is getting the same kind of attention in parking lots as Ms. American gets. People seem to be aware that they are both unusual, and want to talk about them.

Anyway, hope Norm gets the Damper of his heart's desire. There's virtue in having a satisfied heart! :)

JC
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks a bunch puttster -that is a key piece I wasn't able to cull from the various seller's info on it, and answers ALOT. Especially what I highlighted in bold.

Norm

My three pulley set will bolt on to it and according to my figuring, they will match up to my stock AC, Alt and PS pulleys. It is modeled after the 1968 balancer, with the spacer allowing the fit to cover all years.

It comes with a shorter pointer as well, which you will need. I am not sure how the pointer bolts up to our timing covers, as the post -67 models use a different bolt layout for attaching the pointer.

Nevertheless, I would get it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hey JC,

As Elvis used to say "Thank you, thank you very much!"

I will, however, be more mindful of the length of my posts so I don't exceed ......yours! just kidding big guy! It's nice to be poked, and poke back. The world needs more of it (if you watch alota news, you know what I mean!)

As to the fine line between keeping a car all/nearly original versus "gawd awful special pieces" galore; Yes, I agree that once a certain line is crossed, a car's "soul" has been disturbed, changed, etc.... I hope not to cross that line, merely replacing and "improving" those things that I deem necessary to keep the car tractable, safe, enjoyable, ...and of course, FUN!

Now, here's where I would go into this long digression as to what I have done, and plan on doing ..........

But I won't ..... <whew>, what a relief, eh? ;)

Norm (no longer disguised as JC)


Hey mon Deb,
I've been kind of enjoying reading the pretty well written posts by Minn. He spells well, has decent syntax and punctuation. Is able to make complete sentences and paragraphs.

Now if we could just get him get over wanting to use all this over-hyped "after-market" equipment, and thinking that somehow a Damper for an FE has to be some "gawd-awful" special piece, he MIGHT turn out to be an exemplary 64 Galaxie enthusiast.

Only time will tell.

JC
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
FEandGoingBroke sez: Are you SURE you're NOT JC Allison in disguise? WOW you really get winded :)
There's a certain right-of-passage factor to receiving a reply from the FE maestro. Yea, kinda like getting paddled by the shop teacher -still, you only wanna do that once. :)

Answer one: If you think you got a bad balancer and you're a fairly good judge of good and bad, then sent it to Damper Dudes down in Redding Cali and get it rebuilt for $60 bucks or so.

I realize (from reading the maaany past posts where you allude to this), that some folks don't take even 1 minute to self-educate before firing away here with questions. I like to think that I do a modicum of research, and have some ducks lined up .... before pulling the ask trigger. That said; Damper Doc, no doubt a first rate outfit, charges $107 for that damper. And, according to their core information boiler plate, my core wouldn't likely pass muster (typical cracked rubber on a 48 yr old rubberized part). So yes, they are an option --already an established fact, and thanks.

Answer Two: If in the future you need to upgrade and your original pulley don't work, you Replace the PULLEY not the Harmonic Balancer....

Well, duh, lol. ;) My concern here is the depth of the total "stack", ie; damper + pulley set= stack. Is that the same between the '64-'67 "skimpy" balancer and the '68/ 'hefty' one -I ask myself. I may just have to buy some 'donor' ones -just for measuring, mock that up and see for myself.


I hope that what Kul and I said will help :) He said it one way I said it another, the answer is there somewhere :)

I sincerely appreciate any and all input from this tremendous group, and will work on my brevity.;)

Norm
 

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I'm going to ask. How do you know it's bad? Did you check TDC and it was off or is the rubber just cracked? I also think your core would be ok as the rubber is what they replace. As far as the stack of the damper and pulleys it all works out on the FE's. I mix and match all the time and the belts all line up. Also I use Damper Dudes and not Damper Doc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yay, that's gonna work out sweet then, thanks! you saved me time and $$! Even better still, I'll be able to stick with FoMoCo. Oh but pulease don't tell JC that, I think he was hoping to show off those curb feelers to me! ;)

I evidently oopsed and got Damper Docs and Dudes mixed up. I'll be sure to check Dudes out, and, while I was searching, I also found Dale Manufacturing Salem, OR; website: new*home*page*H.B..

Thanks again ! :bow:

I'm going to ask. How do you know it's bad? Did you check TDC and it was off or is the rubber just cracked? I also think your core would be ok as the rubber is what they replace. As far as the stack of the damper and pulleys it all works out on the FE's. I mix and match all the time and the belts all line up. Also I use Damper Dudes and not Damper Doc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Getting back to you on your inquiry;

Yes, yes, and I'm also ferreting out a slight vibration at tip-in (more like me being anal, but I feel it). Have done all the things I woulda down 30 yrs ago as a tech, but .....brick-solid motor mounts, that damper, unknown clutch & p/plate, worn pilot bushing, plus innerds that are ?? to me still lay ahead -any and all could easily cause it. The motor appears unmolested, but still..... I say all that based on some of the heinous repairs I've found done by the p.o. or his "mechanics". uuffda!

Added to that I wear bifocal glasses and have a he** of a time seeing those teeny timing marks, lol. I even got some white latex paint, a small artists brush and picked out everything pertinent --and still with my nice MAC timing light, it's a chore. The '68 and up generation improves that problem, but, the Pro balancer knocks it outa the park. Plus, it rather blends in nicely without looking "Mr Gasketish" if you get my drift. ;)

Of course, after I started this thread, theeeen I find this thread on the FE Engine forum ....just the pics alone answer ALL my concerns. That's how it goes right? lol, lol.

332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum: 1965 390 Piloce Interceptor Balancer Revisited

For now I'm researching, acquiring info and maybe, if I decide to ever pull the motor over some winter, I can make a bunch of upgrades, fixes and improvements --while protecting the 'soul' of "her". The car runs out sooo nice and smooth as-is, compared to how she acted when I first pulled it into my d/way. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies as well. :)

Thanks again for your interest and help! Norm

I'm going to ask. How do you know it's bad? Did you check TDC and it was off or is the rubber just cracked? I also think your core would be ok as the rubber is what they replace. As far as the stack of the damper and pulleys it all works out on the FE's. I mix and match all the time and the belts all line up. Also I use Damper Dudes and not Damper Doc.
 
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