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Discussion Starter #1
How much wear should I expect to see on an engine that is less than one year (rebuilt) and only 6,000 miles of use.

Should I expect to see copper already?

Rod bearings are showing copper on the (rod side) of about all the bearings.

The mains are showing copper as follows ...
Bottom side/cap half
#1 zero
#2 just a little
#3 half or more across
#4 it's damn near all showing copper
rear main ... almost non

Top side/block half
#1 shows big area of copper
all the other four show no copper

Background ... This is the engine I have posted on a time or two regarding a vibration becoming very noticeable at about 2,500 RPM which happens to be highway cruising RPM


Finally, I'm to the point I have torn it completely apart to have the entire rotating assembly re-balanced, by a DIFFERENT SHOP!


Anyway ... What do you think of this sort of bearing wear after 6,000 miles ... I'll gladly supply more info if anyone wants.


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Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 4/28/02 3:03am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Monstermach on 5/9/02 10:36pm ]</font>
 

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with my small knowledge of bearing wear,

it is possible that either your crank is not straight,
Or more likely the rotating assembly is out
of balance and it is causing more wear on those specific journals. The front and rear
mains probably wouldnt get the same force on
them so they didnt wear the same as the others. If it is out of balance or the crank
is bent, you will get a vibration when running the motor.

Yes, at 6000 mi your bearings should still
have the light gray coating on them.
I pulled down my 460 a couple of years ago
to check it out and my bearings were just
starting to show copper and the motor was rebuilt about 14 years before that.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tbird on 4/28/02 12:27am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Crank was a "new" crank kit (complete assembly - crank, rods, pistons, bearings, rings ... the works) ... Short block was bought as a "Done Assembly" using this rortating assembly from well known machine shop here in Vegas. This place builds all sorts of engines from Racetrack stuff to every day driver types.

I did not specifically request anything other than a shortblock assembly ready for heads and intake ... etc.

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Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 4/28/02 2:38am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I got the entire engine dis-assembled ... took bearings to machine shop (the one that built the short block in the first place)...

He agrees, there is a problem.

He has the only "Crank Grinder" in Las Vegas and does all the crank grinding for all the shops in town pretty much ... He says the only way to know for sure about if the crank is "bent" or not is to center it up on the crank machine and take measurements. The crank does spin freely in the mains of the block though.

Once we have that figured out for sure ... I'll take the entire rotating assemble to the shop that balanced my 351C 4V for me ... their work was superb on the Cleveland, and the second shop will help insure that the first shop isn't trying to "hide" anything that they may have screwwed up.

Then I'll reassemble it myself with new bearings and rings ... also have the cylinders lightly honed.

Any other ideas anyone might have?


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Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 4/29/02 2:34am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: monstermach on 4/29/02 2:36am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Had the crank checked (remember this was a virgin aftermarket crank ... now with 6,000 miles on it).

It checked out as straight in terms of "Not Bent" but it was determined that it is not "as true as it could be" ... Result is I am having the mains turned to .010 under.

As it was described to me, this process will "true up" any individual journal issues as well as insure that all journals are in "perfect alignment" with one an other.

Shop sould have this done by tomorrow ... then off to Fultz's for a "top of the line" balance job.


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Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 4/30/02 3:12am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: monstermach on 4/30/02 6:21am ]</font>
 

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Sounds great to me, hopefully it will take care of your problem!
 

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Outta curiosity, which machine shop are ya usin?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Howard, down at "Vegas Machine" did the short block assembly for me ...

The "crank kit" came form Scott over at DynoFlo, which is over off Wynn Road.

Dan and Cory over at Fultz's did all my machine work for my Nasty 351C 4V ... All turned out perfect on that one so I'm having this assembly balanced by them this time ...

Not to mention Dan just had his equiptment calibrated so it should be "right on".
 

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Ya cant go wrong with Fultz's, thats for sure. I have heard a few problems from Howard though. Hes a good guy, but his buisness practices leave something to be desired. I personally use Motor Mission, made good friends with Jimmy down there. Also for a good head guy, Get ahold of Todd over at C&N in henderson. Hes an old roommate of mine (even did some time with howard) Does awesome work. Im havin him do the aussie heads for my Stang when I get em. Man I cant wait to get the ole stang back on the road. I love my truck, and this 460 sure moves it along pretty well, but theres nothing like cruisin a stang!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Crank is set to go ... mains .010 under, rod journals are on the "low side" of spec for "standard" (polished only).

Entire rotating assembly is at Fultz's for balance job ... Should be back in my hands by end of week. Dan will let me know what the "imbalance" on this assembly is ... those bearings can't be wearing for no reason.

Block is at Vegas Machine for tank ... cylinder hone and check the mains (align hone) ... hopefully, I'll have it by end of week also


This engine has aluminum heads ... I've been told I should resurface them before re-installation ... What is you guys pulse on aluminum heads and re-install? ... Do you mill them as a standard practice?


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Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 5/1/02 10:36pm ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 5/1/02 10:39pm ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: monstermach on 5/1/02 11:24pm ]</font>
 

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More bearing wear at the back of the motor indicates that it is a balance problem at the rear of the crank. If it was a bent crank, you would get more even wear across all surfaces.

I'd suspect the flywheel or in an automatic, the convertor or flexplate could have flung a weight off or just be misaligned. Supposedly the flexplates can only be attached to the motor one way, but I've seen with some "extra force" where you can put a flexplate on more than one way.

When you get your crank checked, take all the pieces and have them ALL balanced.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OK ... Got the block back today, tanked, cylinders honed and align honed ... not the rotating assembly though ... Can't do too much with it over the weekend
 

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Monster Mach,

Keep us posted on the outcome of the balance job. I really want to hear what they find. When this progect is all done you may want to go back to the original guy who did your previous work and let him know what the problem was. I doubt that he will do anything for you, which sucks. Is this a chevy you are working on?


Blue Fastback
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Blue Fastback .... Sshhhhhh .... Your going to let the cat out of the bag here



Yes it is ... I've posted a few times on this problem. Your right though I can't wait to see what Dan has to tell me about the Original balance job.

The original shop has known about the problem, but you are also right about them not being very helpful ... Whatever I have had them do for me in an effort to correct (or warranty) the problem, they have charged me for. I guess it's one of those "excersises in learning" where you learn the places to NEVER go back to.
 

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Was this job one of those money up front deals? JNow that you say you arent going back, I can give a lil more detail (dont like to bad mouth a shop someone likes) Bout two years ago Howard did a 460 for a company I worked for. Had to fork out something around 2500 up front, built us a 460 with mismatched heads, and at 1200 mile it started knockin and blew the radiator hose off. He pulled it apart, found nothing wrong, but rebuilt at no charge. The second motor only lasted 8 months or so. Sad sight Im afraid. Although not as bad as the machine work at Nevada Valvetrain, at least they have some kinda warrenty... Stuck with the folks at Fultz's if your happy. I've heard no complaints from them at all. One of these days I'm gonna have to meet ya. Seems like you know your Stangs, Got a few things on my 71 I could use a lil insight on! Take care.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well Darrell ...

I'm real easy to find if you go to the East side much ...

I'm right off the 95 freeway on Flamingo , then two streets to the east ... right on the corner


Give me a call anytime ... 683-6080

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Larry Madsen
Las Vegas Nevada



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MonsterMach on 5/5/02 6:14am ]</font>
 

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MonsterMach,


Good machine shops are very hard to find! I always seem to find the wrong ones to deal with. I have learned the hard way many times. Everyone wants to charge big money for sloppy work. I always very carefully check any machine work now done including basic valvejobs. Seems like they always screw something up. I dont know how most of them stay in bussiness. I am still searching for a good one. I dont mind paying good money if the work is done right and I dont have problems down the road with the work that was just done.

Looks like I was right near your house the other day when I went to Vegas for a trip. I stayed at the Flamingo. Now I know why they call Vagas the "city of sin".


Blue Fastback
 

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although the bearing wear you described is by no means out of the ordinary for this mileage, i can understand your desire to rid yourself of the vibrations. aobut your most recent post; i have never seen a flexplate that will mount in the wrong position. there is a specific offset for a reason.

as for the crank turning and balance, you should definitely spent the extra money and get a good fluid damper.
 

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Wow you arent that far at all, I'm out near ya daily pickin up my fiance. Also spend a lot of time at the 4x4 shop at valley view and spring mtn. Definately have to meet up sometime. Lemme get the old stang back up and registered, and I'll have to cruise out there. Take care!
 
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