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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
ok I am doing a repost because I want to be fair and not jump the gun on what caused this motor and heads damage so I am going to post pic's up and if you build any motors or your own motors please look and see what you see might have went wrong thanks and please don't let this turn into a flame anyone kind of thing just honest opinion of what you see thanks and all motor builders are welcome to look and give your opinion thanks pray and always pray god bless
 

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Discussion Starter #3
here are a few pics of the head
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I will post up some pic of pistons but like I said none of the pistons have any marks at all other then were the intake valve seat was cut up in cylinder 5 into about 7 lil bits and the number 6 and number 8 cylinder sucked them in and number 6 tried to push it out the exhaust valve and it got wedge in-between the exhaust valve and the seat and held that valve open and the piston touched that exhaust valve and left a mark but the number 8 cylinder piece of broke seat got caught on the way in and was stuck in-between the intake valve and seat on that cylinder so I think that it barely touched that valve but there is no marks what so ever on that cylinder or cylinders 1/2/3/4/7/ of any kind at all and even number 8 piston has no marks for that matter witch leads me to believe that the exhaust valve on number 5 cylinder failed and cut the seat of the intake valve then the broken up seat made its way in number 6 and number 8 cylinder and number 6 pulled it all they way in and tried to shoot it out the exhaust and got stuck in-between the seat and exhaust valve causing the pistion to hit that valve and the same thing on cylinder 8 just on the intake valve but number 8 cylinder has no marks at all so the valve might just look bent held open by the broke seat that's wedged in-between the valve and seat what do you think I sent AFR photos of the pistons already but I will try and upload them here from my phone and post them also
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ok here are some pics I took with the computer cam of pics I have on phone already they are harder to make out this way but I will get my wife to upload them so you all can get a better pic of what has happened but this should give you all an idea of what I am seeing please offer your opinion because I want to make sure this dose not happen again thanks and god bless
 

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Discussion Starter #6
bump really no one has any idea of what might of happen I really don't want this to happen again
 

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I don't see any indication of valves hitting pistons. That to me is the #1 cause for valves breaking. Fatigue ( old) is the #2 cause . "Material flaw" failure is very rare these days. I broke some "stock" Boss 302 exhaust valves 40+ years ago, but never a stainless unless it hit something first.
Tough for me to suggest anything else since the valve isn't "old" and it didn't hit anything before it broke ( from your pictures). AFR uses high quality parts , not junk like PCE. Sorry I couldn't help more.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't see any indication of valves hitting pistons. That to me is the #1 cause for valves breaking. Fatigue ( old) is the #2 cause . "Material flaw" failure is very rare these days. I broke some "stock" Boss 302 exhaust valves 40+ years ago, but never a stainless unless it hit something first.
Tough for me to suggest anything else since the valve isn't "old" and it didn't hit anything before it broke ( from your pictures). AFR uses high quality parts , not junk like PCE. Sorry I couldn't help more.
thanks for just responding means a lot. I love the afr heads it is the only heads I have ever used. I know that don't use junk anything that's why I like them so much. If it was just a fluke valve I know that things happen no matter what even with te big boy's pro stock guys it's part of racing. I just want to make sure I can learn all I can about this failure.
 

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Just passing-through and saw this, and wanted to note that there is not enough information about the package and failure parameters to determine much, at least at this point. And, while all the photos are somewhat helpful, they do not have the close and clear quality to allow meaningful failure analysis. Keeping in-mind that valve head separation is usually (though not always) due to improper springs or hardware (for the valve types, cam specs, and rpm) or improper spring setup causing seat bounce or spring pack harmonics; confirming spring/component application suitability and possibly sending the head for analysis to an authority or AFR would be my suggestion to receive reasonable answers. I support your quest for answers and agree that you cannot avoid a problem that you do not either have awareness or understanding. :tup: While it may feel like giving the chicken to the fox; AFR will likely have the best answers for you, if you can find someone there you feel is willing to work with you for those answers.

David
 

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When Tony was at AFR I would have suggested you send the head to him. But I don't have any contacts there now. David is right , they should look at the head.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just passing-through and saw this, and wanted to note that there is not enough information about the package and failure parameters to determine much, at least at this point. And, while all the photos are somewhat helpful, they do not have the close and clear quality to allow meaningful failure analysis. Keeping in-mind that valve head separation is usually (though not always) due to improper springs or hardware (for the valve types, cam specs, and rpm) or improper spring setup causing seat bounce or spring pack harmonics; confirming spring/component application suitability and possibly sending the head for analysis to an authority or AFR would be my suggestion to receive reasonable answers. I support your quest for answers and agree that you cannot avoid a problem that you do not either have awareness or understanding. :tup: While it may feel like giving the chicken to the fox; AFR will likely have the best answers for you, if you can find someone there you feel is willing to work with you for those answers.

David
thank you for your response mean's a lot. I have in fact been in touch with AFR and they have gave me an RMA number to send the head's in for inspection i will upload better pic's if that will help. I just keep going over and over in my head what could of went wrong? I have got my build sheet out and have went over every thing and it all is right. The intake pocket on the piston has a 2.250 radial clearance exhaust has a 1.870 radial clearance and .240 depth intake side with .210 depth exhaust side and on mock up witch I did many times to double and triple check I had .75 radial clearance on the intake and .150 on the exhaust with .80 piston to valve clearance intake and .110 exhaust and I used a thicker head gasket to lower compression some and that helped with the clearance that I have. I may not have the best quench area but hey it's a street/strip car not a gas saver thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When Tony was at AFR I would have suggested you send the head to him. But I don't have any contacts there now. David is right , they should look at the head.
yes I wish tony was still there that's for sure Jason still work's there so maybe he will have the right answer when all the dust and smoke clear thanks' for your response mean's a lot.
 

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Tony and i became friends when he was in New York at Scott Shafiroff's. Smart guy who soaked up tons of information like a sponge. That has paid off for him in his new venture. Jason will treat you right too.
 

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Tony and i became friends when he was in New York at Scott Shafiroff's. Smart guy who soaked up tons of information like a sponge. That has paid off for him in his new venture. Jason will treat you right too.
Were did Tony go? to start his new venture.
 

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Tony and i became friends when he was in New York at Scott Shafiroff's. Smart guy who soaked up tons of information like a sponge. That has paid off for him in his new venture. Jason will treat you right too.
just to give an update AFR is sending me a new box so I can send them the head's in they also said Jason left there in 2010 so he no longer work's there I could swear I talked to Jason about the AFR 205's I had about a spring pocket





on that particular head it's been a rough few year's so who knows
 

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Discussion Starter #18
UPDATE so AFR has been in touch with me and sent me pics in my email to confirm that it was indeed piston to valve clearance that caused all this it is truly my fault to the fullest even with that they went as far as replacing the casting free of charge all I had to do was pay for the valves and they only charged me half price for the spring upgrade I did they are a stand up company who I would and will recommend to anyone now if you know they will look out for you on something like this then you know with out a doubt that there going to stand behind there product I will never buy another brand head but AFR heads not only do the heads make the projected power they stand behind not only there product but there customer's as well thanks to all of you that replayed means a lot my god be with you all
 
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