[M3FordBoy]

Yesterday I noticed a bump on my valve cover (that can't be good I think to myself). Then I listen real closly and could hear something hitting the valve cover I though that one of the original rocker arms had broken, but today when I got home from school I opened her up and found the shaft had broke right in the middle of the support. And to my relief nothing else was damaged and it's a pretty easy fix. I didn't notice the power diffence (don't get on it alot) and I don't know when it broke, because I can't hardly hear anything except the beautiful, but loud exhaust note.

 

[psivory]

Yikes! So what do ya think happened?

 

[Beoweolf]

With FE's...that's to be expected.

The end rocker only have support on one side. Especailly when using high tension valve springs, sooner or later the end will break. Your is in the classic location. The bolt to hold the assembly to the head passes through the shaft..creates a weaker spot, when added with the valve spring, high revs and over time, it cracks and eventually breaks.

You can keep replacing them with stock shafts. Or you can get rifle drilled shafts, they are made of chrome molly, are thicker too. The best fix is to up grade to aftermarket end stands that support both ends. You can get just the end stands or replace all the stands ...there are kits.

Like the old time Cops would say after drawing the "Chalk outline ont he sidewalk..."Move along folks, nothing to see here'. Just another design "feature" that makes FE's unique.

Its an easy fix. After awhile, I was able to replace them in under an hour. Matter of fact, until I upgraded, I used to carry a spare rocker arm assembly (oiled, wrapped and protected) in the trunk. Once you upgrade the stands and maybe replace the spring (between the rocker arms) with solid aluminum spacers. The top end is pretty much bulllet proof.

Ps. I notice that you are still useing the non-adjustable rocker arms ... you might want to look into getting adjustables. They allow you to get the most out your cam - hydralic or solid.

_________________
"They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither Liberty nor safety"-- Benjamin Franklin

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beoweolf on 3/24/06 8:23am ]</font>

 

[63boxtop]

what size cam is in the engine? the stock shaft set-up is prone to breakage when people start throughing larger cams to them, i've broke 2 myself also

 

[M3FordBoy]

Hey thanks for the info Beoweolf I'll definately be upgrading i've looked around and haveing been able to find the end support kit would you know where to look? Also I have a question about the lifters in the top pic the pushrod looks to be sitting realy low and the other one is pretty bent up is it possible that the lift coud have dislodged themself because to me it seems they aren't there and I can't realy see them or does that look pretty normal to you?

The cam Crane energizer I think either 216 degrees @ .533 lift int. and exhust or 210 degrees @ .516 lift int. and exhaust. Sorry for all the all the questions you got to learn somehow they deffinatly don't teach this stuff in school.

 

[Beoweolf]

Erson, Dove, Isky, DSC, Harland Sharp ... and several others make full stand off kits which include endstands. Take your pick.

Even Summit has them in their online catalog. They are not cheap...a full set can run a $700 (which includes shaft, roller rocker arms, all the stands, everything except push rods)

<U>Erson</U>

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/erson_rockersfordfe.html

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=ERS-E918502&N=115+400247+309477&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=ERS-E918502&N=115+400247+309477&autoview=sku

Dove has been in the FE game since they were new.

<U>Dove</U>

http://www.doveengineparts.com/

heavy duty rockers shaft can range anywhere from $100 up to $200 for the pair.

<U>Harland Sharp</U>

http://www.harlandsharp.com/serviceparts3.htm

I'm guessing you don't have much in the way of catalogs on FE stuff. This is a engine that hasn't been made from the factory since the '70's. You are going to have to dig a little deeper to find information, it ain't like a sbf or sbc. Since you have Aluminum heads, you are familiar with that fact... this is a very unique engine, its becoming popular again. And there are "tricks" to fix most of the old factory flaws, but since the Kit Cobra crowd is in the same market, prices are a little out of whack. Vendors are foolish enough to think everyone is rich.

PS. hydralic lifters have a limit to how much they can adjust. As they pump up, they become less forgiving of tolerance stacking. I think that is the cuase of a lot of the bent push rods and contributes to end shaft breakages (on cyl #1, #4, #5 and #

...adjustable rocker arm allow you to make allowances for that. A properly adjusted hydralic lifter should only be 1/2 to 3/4 turns back, after the lifter is fully extended (pumped up), any more and they can go "near" solid; that leads to bending and breakage. Take it for what its worth, Free advice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beoweolf on 3/26/06 9:29am ]</font>

 

[M3FordBoy]

Thanks, again for the info. Beening I just turned 18 I've got alot to learn and I realy appreciate the help. Oh and I did find the end support kits I just didn't know it... I guess I was just hopping they didn't cost that much, and at that price I'll just have to settle for some hardened shafts and adjustable rocker arms for now and probably a pretty long time.

 

[farmallmta]

M3, among the things you need to check on both heads are:
1) fatigued/worn/bent/misaligned rocker shafts
2) valve springs matched to the cam type and lift
3) correct pushrod length and straightness
4) properly faced and rotating rocker arms
5) dampened valve spring resonance ----http://www.cranecams.com/?show=newsLetters&no=153----
6) straight and nonbinding valve stems
7) correct and correctly installed nonbindig valve guides

properly centered valve seats
9) correct valvetrain lash on solid tappets or compression on hyd. lifters
10) adequate oiling of valvetrain

Most or all of these issues you're familiar with, no doubt, but we all tend to discount how changing one little thing can affect lots of other things related to that change.

Good luck with the troubleshooting and repair! Let us know how it turns out!

 

[Sixt9coug]

i bought the Crane setup for my car. would that be less prone to this sort of breakage? it would certainly suck. damn thing was expensive.


hows the car otherwise M3?? i havent been around the boards in a while. good to see more 68s on the forum too

 

[coosbaylumber]

Used to break the shafts on occasion back in the late 1960's with calmer valve action. After replacing the third shaft, with an even stronger one, we telephoned a shop to find out what they were doing.

Most problems that mentioned was in that too long of pushrods.

The clearance between stem and guide too tight.

Mush lifters pumping up, and look into different style than we were using.

See that upon bolting the shaft in place it was then straight.

Our problem tuned to be the oil deflector pan was jambing the stands, then the shaft got torqued into place high and low. Threw that tin pan away, got another one for free, and never had the problem again.

Then the engine ran better, and we began swollowing exhaust valves.

Wm.

 

[M3FordBoy]

I have checked the other side and it looks to be fine. One thing I did notice the there were are no shims for the rocker arms for the most part and looking how they lined up a few could use them. I'm going to go ahead a take off the intake and inspect the lifters and so I can pull that bent pushrod out (it's bent enough that it won't come out.) I've also looking at getting the Crane setup from http://www.summitracing.com part.# CRN-34790-1 It looks to have end stands and is a kit with everything except pushrods plus compaired with other kits it's not to bad of a price. If someboady could look at this and tell me what they think that would be great.

And the car Sixt9coug is/was fairly driveable. I have had it liscenced sence the end of August '05 and have driven it on average once a week sence then all through the winter. The body is in pretty good shape a little more body work to do which includes molding on the fiberglass cowl. Also the dashbord and seat fixed which is pretty much lined up to get done once it gets warmer. My grandpa is going to paint it this summer and I have to get some new srpings, shocks, wheels and tires to. It's a work in progress with alot of bumpy roads but by the end of this summer it should be looking pretty good. And if anybody is in the national street machine club (Sreet Thunder mag.) The car can be seen in the August/September issue or '05 under youth rides. Not much to look at no bumper or hood at the time, but a cool one page article called "Quest to Save the Galaxie" I'll have to photo copy and post it sometime.

_________________
'68 Galaxie 500 XL
390fe C6

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: M3FordBoy on 3/28/06 7:12am ]</font>

 

[bluelightning302]

cranes are the cheapest ones and theyre expensive as all hell,still,i think imma go with the Comp Cams rockers/shafts

 

[M3FordBoy]

^The comp cams setup with the end supports is over $1000 on summit. Thats why I think I'm going to go with crane because I want the end supports. It's one reason why the shaft broke in the first place.

 

[bluelightning302]

crane has the end supports??? thats cool maybe ill go crane. The crane setup is $480 while the comp is $528,but i dont think the comp set comes with the end supports. Are u sure the crane has end supports??with the crane set,i hear some people have problems with the rockers not staying inline with the valves or something,anybody outthere have any ideas??

 

[M3FordBoy]

I think it has end stands I called and they said the cran setup was an entire kit everything except the pushrods stands and everything. If you look at the picture it online it has the two center stands then the two outer stands looks to extend past the last rockers for suport at the ends. I comp $528 setup is just for rocker arms and shafts. I think that Sixt9coug said he has the crane setup he might know for sure.

 

[JaredG]

Hi,
I don't have any personal knowledge of the various rocker setups for FEs, but I remembered some recent threads from the fordfe forum about the cranes. Check these out:
http://www.network5*.com/Forum/74182/thread/1141316311/
http://www.network5*.com/Forum/74182/thread/1142473428/
http://www.network5*.com/Forum/74182/thread/1140399700/

Jared

I don't know why, but when I post the links above, they get modified. THe asterisk should be a "4".


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JaredG on 3/30/06 8:52pm ]</font>

 

[bluelightning302]

ive never read those posts beforebut ive read others eerily similar,which is why i dont think imma go with crane. This is horrible a $500 part should be just plug and play,none of this milling and shimmying crap. so whats the next best kit out there???

 

[bluelightning302]

i was reading the link for the erson rockers at flatlanderracing.com and it lists different part numbers for edelbrock heads and stock FE heads,what gives,i thought theyd be the same??anyways i think imma go with the erson rockers when i get my heads. The heads im planning on getting are the Keith Kraft stage II ,any body here running those??

 

[My427stang]

I was the guy fighting the Cranes rollers on the FE forum. They are nice pieces, but .085 too long. Would they run, maybe, but they may roll off the end of the valve. They also REQUIRE shorter pushrods, where Ersons for 650 are bolt and go (what I changed to)

I wholeheartedly recommend the Ersons, but if you are on a budget, do a search for Precision Oil Pumps, email Doug Garifo and get a set of end stands. For about 100 bucks, then take a set of used shafts, they wont ever break with end support and you'll be good to go

The Ersons will be just as stable, and add full needle bearing operation, roller tip, less weight AND more exact ratios, BUT, if you are on a budget, the end stand only setup will work fine and dandy

 

[M3FordBoy]

^Alright thanks for that info because I'm definatly on a budget. Do I still need to get some chromemolly shafts or will stock do? I still my look into roller tipped rockers though.