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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
C-4 Help addium (ALL Autos Not Just C-4 info)

Not to clog up the original thread I will cut and paste some info about Tranny fluids and compatibilities.....

ATRA says that type F was used in the early 70s on a transmission called the Cruizematic that had bronze clutches.*

Type A was used on pretty much everything else, until they came out with other fluids
, like Dexron, Mercon, etc. The Honda fluids go under the category of HFM, or highly friction modified. They have other friction characteristics in comparison to DexronIII/Mercon. Here is one list:

Type F — Introduced by Ford in 1967 for their automatics. Also used by Toyota.
Type CJ — Special Ford fluid for C6 transmissions. Similar to Dexron II. Must not be used in automatics that require Type F. Type H — Another limited Ford spec that differs from both Dexron and Type F. Can be replaced with Mercon.
Mercon — Ford fluid introduced in 1987, very similar to Dexron II. OK for all earlier Fords, except those that require Type F.
Mercon V — Ford’s newest type, introduced in 1997 for Ranger, Explorer V6 and Aerostar, and 1998 & up Windstar, Taurus/Sable and Continental. Must not be used in 1997 or earlier Fords.
Dexron — General Motors original ATF for automatics.
Dexron II — Improved GM formula with better viscosity control and additional oxidation inhibitors. Can be used in place of Dexron.
Dexron IIE — GM fluid for electronic transmissions.
Dexron III — Replaces Dexron IIE and adds improved oxidation and corrosion control in GM electronic automatics.
Dexron III/Saturn — A special fluid spec for Saturns.
Chrysler 7176 — For Chrysler FWD transaxles.
Chrysler 7176D (ATF +2) — Adds improved cold temperature flow and oxidation resistance. Introduced in 1997.
Chrysler 7176E (ATF +3) — Adds improved shear stability and uses a higher quality base oil.
Genuine Honda ATF — Special ATF for Honda automatics.
Toyota Type T — Special formula for Toyota All Trac vehicles and some Lexus models.


*- I believe this is erroneous, as further down in thread it was discussed.



Here is another application chart from another website with additional information:

Type F -- Introduced by Ford in 1967 for their automatics. Also used by Toyota.
Type CJ -- Special Ford fluid for C6 transmissions. Similar to Dexron II. Must not be used in automatics that require Type F.
Type H -- Another limited Ford spec that differs from both Dexron and Type F. Can be replaced with Mercon.
Mercon -- Ford fluid introduced in 1987, very similar to Dexron II. Okay for all earlier Fords except those that require Type F.
Mercon V -- Ford's newest type, introduced in 1997 for Ranger, Explorer V6 and Aerostar, and 1998 & up Windstar, Taurus/Sable and Continental. Must not be used in 1997 or earlier Fords.
Dexron -- General Motors original ATF for automatics.
Dexron II -- Improved GM formula with better viscosity control, and additional oxidation inhibitors. Can be used in place of Dexron.
Dexron IIE -- GM fluid for electronic transmissions.
Dexron III -- Replaces Dexron IIE and adds improved oxidation and corrosion control in GM electronic automatics.
Dexron III (H) – Improved version of Dexron III released in 2003.
Dexron III/Saturn -- A special fluid spec for Saturns.
Dexron-VI – For 2006 GM Hydra-Matic 6L80 6-speed rear-wheel-drive transmissions, can also be used in earlier transmissions that require Dexron III and III(H).
Chrysler 7176 -- For Chrysler FWD transaxles.
Chrysler 7176D (ATF+2) -- Adds improved cold temperature flow and oxidation resistance. Introduced 1997.
Chrysler 7176E (ATF+3) -- Adds improved shear stability and uses a higher quality base oil. Required for four-speed automatics (do NOT use Dexron or Mercon as a substitute).
Chrysler ATF+4 (ATE)– Introduced in 1998, ATF+4 is synthetic and replaces the previous ATF+3 fluid. Used primarily for 2000 and 2001 vehicles, it can also be used in earlier Chrysler transmissions (except 1999 and older minivans with 41TE/AE transmission). ATF+3 should continue to be used for 1999 and earlier minivans because of the potential for torque converter shudder during break in.

NOTE:Chrysler ATF+4 Must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4. The red dye used in ATF+4 is not permanent. As the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4 also has a unique odor that may change with age. Therefore, do not rely on the color, and odor of ATF+4 to determine if the fluid needs to be changed. Follow the OEM recommended service interval.

Chrysler ATF+5 for 2002 and newer models.

IMPORT APPLICATIONS:

BMW LT7114l or LA2634 -- Special forumla for BMW transmissions.
Genuine Honda ZL ATF -- Special ATF for Honda automatics (except CVT applications).
Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II & SP-Ill -- Special formula ATFs for Mitsubishi transmissions.
Nissan J-Matic --– Special forumla for Nissan transmissions.
Toyota Type T, T-III & T-IV -- Special formula ATFs for Toyota and Lexus transmissions.
 

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Very interesting...Thanks..
I never knew there was sooooo many different types of fluid. I'v been using type F in my old Fords...I wonder what we should be using in pre '67 automatics?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Very interesting...Thanks..
I never knew there was sooooo many different types of fluid. I'v been using type F in my old Fords...I wonder what we should be using in pre '67 automatics?
No problem... was doing a search for the compatibility of fluids and stumbled into that thread.... As I said the mods can edit move etc, or i can rename the thread for a sticky if its needed....

To your question, I have ALWAYS used type F in all the ford tranny's I've had with no ill effects, the '61 I have included...

HTH others also....
 

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Dexron was not the original fluid for GM vehicles.

The primary types of automatic transmission fluids are: Type A - used by older model GM vehicles; Type F - used by older model Ford vehicles; Dexron III - used when specified by later model GM vehicles and some foreign makes; Mercon - commonly specified for Ford vehicles manufactured between 1980 and 1999; and ATF+3 or +4 - for use in many Chrysler vehicles.



It was type A which was replaced by Dexron in the late 60's because it's base was whale oil.


This is a good write up though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Stuart, :tup: was just trying to pass along a little info... I suspect that you are a "tranny" guy, and I will/can edit the post to reflect what you say. I think the ATRA is a little erroneous in the statement of Type-F and early '70's also, but it does state that Type A was used in just about everything else:D
 

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Thanks Stuart, :tup: was just trying to pass along a little info... I suspect that you are a "tranny" guy, and I will/can edit the post to reflect what you say. I think the ATRA is a little erroneous in the statement of Type-F and early '70's also, but it does state that Type A was used in just about everything else:D

:tup:Yup I be tranny guy.:DBurnt out tranny guy.

47 years of transmission fluid was enough for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
:tup:Yup I be tranny guy.:DBurnt out tranny guy.

47 years of transmission fluid was enough for me.
I would agree, cuz that stuff gets EVERYWHERE!!!

A question related to the trans prob in the other thread,(the Valve Body Thread) does the tranny thats 'missing' a gear have a governor? (asking for a specific reason, do to one of my tranny gurus 'fixes' for a misbehaving rebuilt ford tranny)
 

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Interesting stuff. The "bronze" discs are semi-met friction discs. I've only seen a couple original sets with the fine goldish glitter. It's of passing interest to note that type F is specified to contain no friction modifiers, which is why it's popular with racers for faster and harder clutch lockup. It 'grabs'. Though a tad higher viscosity, the spec's are really similar to UTF like John Deere J21. While I know UTF is a popular substitute overseas and with racers, I haven't used it long-term. Though I can still get Type F locally, I'm planning to use UTF in my next daily driver C4. Any opinions, Sutart?

While the CJ fluid may have been first spec'ed for the C6 HD applications (equivalent to Mercon/DexIII - aka "MD3"), it wasn't only for C6s, as I've had both late C4s and C5s that had CJ fluid called-out on the dipsticks, so the friction materials must've change around 1978-80 in those as well.

Also interesting trivia to note that a 1984 Ford HD truck service manual I was flipping through at the swap meet last weekend calls-out a "Kevlar® fiber-reinforced friction materials" for commercial fleet service. I almost bought it just for that. Unfortunately, I didn't see a fluid spec change listed, so I assume that the standard fluid was used. Babble mode off.

David
 

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:tup:Yup I be tranny guy.:DBurnt out tranny guy.

47 years of transmission fluid was enough for me.
on a another note ..
wonder how is paul doing.. PaulS1950 ...
he's another transmission guy with alot knowledge....
he had some health issues....also had to move due to that....
haven't seen him on here since early january....just kinda dissapperd
any one heard from him..??
 

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I haven't seen or heard from Paul in ages.

Lets hope he is up to his arm pits in tranny fluid.
 

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I would agree, cuz that stuff gets EVERYWHERE!!!

A question related to the trans prob in the other thread,(the Valve Body Thread) does the tranny thats 'missing' a gear have a governor? (asking for a specific reason, do to one of my tranny gurus 'fixes' for a misbehaving rebuilt ford tranny)

The big problem is a Hmuked up rebuild.
Some of shops don't have a clue how the older stuff works and unless it has a computer are lost.
Yes it does have a governor. Is your fix to jam it into Park while moving?
 

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Interesting stuff. The "bronze" discs are semi-met friction discs. I've only seen a couple original sets with the fine goldish glitter. It's of passing interest to note that type F is specified to contain no friction modifiers, which is why it's popular with racers for faster and harder clutch lockup. It 'grabs'. Though a tad higher viscosity, the spec's are really similar to UTF like John Deere J21. While I know UTF is a popular substitute overseas and with racers, I haven't used it long-term. Though I can still get Type F locally, I'm planning to use UTF in my next daily driver C4. Any opinions, Sutart?

While the CJ fluid may have been first spec'ed for the C6 HD applications (equivalent to Mercon/DexIII - aka "MD3"), it wasn't only for C6s, as I've had both late C4s and C5s that had CJ fluid called-out on the dipsticks, so the friction materials must've change around 1978-80 in those as well.

Also interesting trivia to note that a 1984 Ford HD truck service manual I was flipping through at the swap meet last weekend calls-out a "Kevlar® fiber-reinforced friction materials" for commercial fleet service. I almost bought it just for that. Unfortunately, I didn't see a fluid spec change listed, so I assume that the standard fluid was used. Babble mode off.

David
+++1. Good comments. The Ford type F fluid does not have friction modifiers--important point. I personally find that Redline Racing ATF works quite well in my old C-4. John--Las Vegas
 
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