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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi All
Nitroused 408C in 3600lb car runs 9's.
I fried my Trans when the Beleville washer failed all the fingers were bent and it was flipped, that then took out all the alto red clutches. or did the clutches fail and overstroked the piston? Chicken or egg?

It's going back together with new Beleville and 0.025" max clearance on forward clutch (6) pack with Raybestos clutches.

I have a Broader Full manual Valvebody. It had only done few hundred Klm's since last rebuild. previously it has been in for 20 years and had run straight B&M Trickshift. When it failed it had Dex 2 in it (some english brand)
What is a good oil to use?

Broader recommend Dex 3 from a reputable company.

I can get Lucas Sure Shift for a good price. Its say replaces Dex 3 & Mercon but interestingly say not compatible with Type F

John Deere UTF

Im leaning towards the Lucas SureShift.

Others thoughts.

Regards
Spud
 

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Any major brand name full synthetic atf is fine.

Here in Canada we (our shop) have been using the Klondike brand Synthetic ATF.
It's been working great for us in all applications.
 

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I used dexron 3 in one of the popular brands , penrite or castrol or 1 trans I built last year for a guy he was using Penrite type F seemed a good oil also

Usually all the brands are compatible . Not heard of the lucas stuff
 

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I use Type F ONLY in my C4s. I would only use Dextron in a trans that had needle thrust bearings. I have Raybestos 'blue plates" and no appreciable wear after several hundred runs. Never had that good of luck with the Altos. .025 seems awfully tight for clutch clearance . You could cause wear by too little clearance as well as too much. IIRC mine is .040-.050 on high gear. Winters full manual reverse pattern , no brake.
What do you think Greg?
 

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For the record...

Ford type F is "slippery-er" than Dexron II/III. Different co-efficient of friction.
The additive package is also a bit different.

Type F was engineered to provide smooth shifts in a stock passenger car application.

One "trick" I heard years ago, was, to make your Ford trans shift "firmer" change the oil to (at the time) Dexron II.
Because of the different co-efficient of friction, the Dex would make the shifts feel "more firm".

Re; clutch clearance.

"Rule of thumb" clutch clearance is 0.010" per friction clutch.
So if your clutch pack has 5 frictions in it, then 0.050" would be a good starting point.

Some clutch packs require more clearance, depending on their function.

Of course, if you have the manufacturers clearance spec, that should be followed.

The forward clutch on a C4 or C6 can get away with tighter clearance, since that clutch just applies, and stays on, whenever the trans is in a forward gear.
It does not need to release at any time during forward travel, like a "shift clutch" pack might.
The clearance in the forward clutch is only needed for neutral/park, and reverse.

If you make a habit of revving the engine to 6000 RPM in neutral/park, or if you go really fast in reverse,
then a tight clearance in the forward might be an issue.

Also for the record...

I don't like the Alto "Red Racer" friction plates.
I will admit to a bias against any Alto product.
I just don't like them.

The Borg/Warner or Raybestos Hi Energy or racing frictions are excellent, as are the Exedy frictions.
 

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I use Type F ONLY in my C4s. I would only use Dextron in a trans that had needle thrust bearings. I have Raybestos 'blue plates" and no appreciable wear after several hundred runs. Never had that good of luck with the Altos. .025 seems awfully tight for clutch clearance . You could cause wear by too little clearance as well as too much. IIRC mine is .040-.050 on high gear. Winters full manual reverse pattern , no brake.
What do you think Greg?
That's good info. I've never tried the blue frictions . Maybe if I freshen one of my own i could try them ..

.025" on the forward is fine , about where i set them. In the high clutch with 5-6 frictions , .040-.050 is good . Closer to .050 with the 6
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for that response, I was thinking the same about the tight clearances of the forward clutch pack as it stays engaged. One performace trans builder with a trans dyno said 0.020 - 0.025"
Where would you run the Hi/Rev clutch pack?

Any input on the Lucas Sure Shift? I just ordered a 5 gal (19L) Pale. cost me less than buying 2 x 5L

Regards
Spud
 

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For the record...

Ford type F is "slippery-er" than Dexron II/III. Different co-efficient of friction.
The additive package is also a bit different.

Type F was engineered to provide smooth shifts in a stock passenger car application.

One "trick" I heard years ago, was, to make your Ford trans shift "firmer" change the oil to (at the time) Dexron II.
Because of the different co-efficient of friction, the Dex would make the shifts feel "more firm".
Actually, its just the opposite. Up into the '80s, most transmission shops used barrels of Type F for everything, as it made Brand X trannies shift cleaner and a bit firmer, and was correct for Ford-family stuff of course. If you do a spec lookup on Type F fluid, you'll find it specifies no friction modifiers. Type F is simple, as basic hydraulic fluid with detergent and corrosion packages and color, to a specific viscosity (ISO 43). This is one reason UTF is so popular in racing, and sometimes as a base for "racing" fluids, also popular for servicing overseas; as in the correct viscosity is equivalent to Type F. Racers often change or blend viscosity for best performance. Hope that helps.

David
 
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