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Discussion Starter #1
So I'm assembling my C4, full roller except #3 washer, and trying to get the input shaft endplay between .010-.025". I can get the #2 washer and shim at .084", and gives me an endplay of .014". Now the biggest #1 shim I have is .120", which does not fit snugly, per the instructions here: Setting C4 End Float . My shim kit is from broader performance, includes 3 #1 and 3 #2 washers. I'm unsure where the shim came from for the #2 washer, maybe it was in the trans already, but it was the only way I could get an endplay of .014". I feel like I did something wrong because my #1 washer is bigger than any of the kits?

What about output shaft endplay? Is there a spec for that? It's fully rollerized, minus #3, and maybe that's accounting for my issue with the input shaft endplay?

The roller kit was from PA, but they don't sell it anymore.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Scratch that output shaft nonsense, it's about dawn here and I'm tired, looked at it and realized that wouldn't do a darn thing. I used some feeler gauges, looks like I need about a .140" #1 washer. That just doesn't seem right though. Maybe it's because it's rollerized and the bearings' thicknesses total up to be a bit less than the thrust washers? All of my washers are numbered 1,2,3,4 looks like TCI has a #5. Probably order that kit, $30, unless someone has a link to some shims? TCI doesn't label the thicknesses (of course). Thanks.
 

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Your best bet would be to get some shims that are meant to go under the T350 bearings used to rollerize. That will move everything forward a bit and reduce the shim required at the #2. In turn that will reduce what you need at the #1

You'll have to measure what each bearing pocket is cut to. You could easy add a shim at the front planet to hub and the back of the input shell to rear planet will push things forward a bit.

I usually cut a bit less than the difference between the rollers and original thrusts , that keeps those from shims to a minimum. The bearing pockets are usually .070-.075" deep. The difference between roller & thrust washer is around .080".

44212 then whatever thickness Automatic Transmission Repair Parts | Transparts Warehouse
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I didn't do any of the rollerizing, was a PA kit, and then a new forward planetary from Broader. How would you go about shimming all of that, just measure a new thrust washer, and then do [(bearing thickness - depth A - depth B) + X] = thrust washer thickness? X being shim required?

I thought of shimming just the front hub, the kit from PA did actually come with a couple of thin shims for the bearings, but they had zero instructions and were just in a plastic bag, so I left them out. I did find a .140" #1 shim on ebay last night, but I suppose I'll tear it all down and measure everything and try to shim it out. .140" might be too thin.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok, well I tore it down and measure it. Here's what I have. Now all of my washers are mixed up between new and used, but seems like they all measure .060"? Not sure if that's right, as when I tore it down originally, I just threw the washers into a box, which happened to have an assortment of other C4 washers. But anyway, I'm not a machinist, and I don't have the proper tooling to measure depth and thicknesses, but this was the best that I could get with a digital caliper.

#1 N/A at this point

#2 N/A at this point

#3 using factory washer, measures .060"

#4 Old bushing: .060"
New bearing: 0.135"
Cut depth: 0.065"

#5 This is the one on the input shell behind the snap ring right? I can measure if need be.


#6 Old bushing: .060"
New bearing: 0.135"
Cut depth: 0.074"


#7 Old bushing: .060"
New bearing: 0.135"
Cut depth: 0.074"


#8 Old bushing: .060"
New bearing: 0.135"
Cut depth: 0.090"???

#9 using broader performance's roller kit, if necessary I can take it all apart, but tailshaft housing is on already.
 

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Those measurements look not too bad.. That's the trouble with a kit as such since each pocket is cut to compensate the added bearing thickness .
Being that a lot of trans are pretty loose to start with i often cut around .070'ish, that way you gain a little at each bearing keeps the front shims thin.
Now , You are kind of limited to shimming forward of the reverse hub snap ring, that's unless the output shaft is excessive.
You could try maybe a .010" under each bearing. If you needed more you could go a little thicker at the rear of the input shell.
I always make sure the nose of the planet doesn't touch the #3 washer on the back of the forward dum also , saves wear there '
That should get you down to a thin #2 endfloat washer at the rear of the stator support , and in turn a thinner #1 Aat the pump
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sounds good, I'll pick up some various shims.

How would I check the output shaft? It seems like there's quite a bit of space below the snap ring after the roller kit, and I feel like I had to fight it more when I first tore it apart.

Thanks for the help!
 

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I can't say I've ever measured the output, I just do by feel , as long as it has a little it's fine . I guess at this point you may need to try to measure what you have. IF i was to put a figure on it I'd say .015 -.020" .
If yours feels excessive you may b e able to gain a bit there by shimming and a bit less further forward
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I can't say I've ever measured the output, I just do by feel , as long as it has a little it's fine . I guess at this point you may need to try to measure what you have. IF i was to put a figure on it I'd say .015 -.020" .
If yours feels excessive you may b e able to gain a bit there by shimming and a bit less further forward

Yeah, couldn't find any spec online anywhere, I'll check the play this evening. That #8 bearing has a clearance of .045" compared to factory .060" washer because the cut is too deep. An extra .015" might help me in the long run. I'd have to look at it again to see if the #8 affects the #2 though. Good thing about this issue is I'm learning a lot more, when I had originally rebuilt the trans it was more of a replace bad parts, not looking at how each part affects the next and how the whole transmission works together. Thank you!
 

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My personal absolute minimum total end play spec is .007"
Prefer around .010"
Can go as loose as .025" or .030" but no more than that.

My minimum is based on looking at several different brands of trans and their end play specs.
After all, they are all quite similar inside, ie; thrust washers and torrington bearings etc...
A trans with all torrington bearings (no thrust washers) can be run on the tight side.

.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
My personal absolute minimum total end play spec is .007"
Prefer around .010"
Can go as loose as .025" or .030" but no more than that.

My minimum is based on looking at several different brands of trans and their end play specs.
After all, they are all quite similar inside, ie; thrust washers and torrington bearings etc...
A trans with all torrington bearings (no thrust washers) can be run on the tight side.

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You're referring to the input shaft endplay correct? I'm aiming for .015", spec being .010-.025". Just having trouble getting there, which gregaust has be a wonderful help, and waiting on some shims to dial it all in.
 

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You may be able to gain a fair bit at that #8 alone. Anything you add will move everything forward and reduce what shim you need up front.

Once you get the #2 dialled in and the endfloat where u want , that will get the #1 down thinner to hopefully one you have.

I have run a full roller as tight as .005"
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That's honestly what I was going to try first, shim that #8 .020" (now it's about .040" vs original thrust being .060"). Will try to find a proper depth gauge/micrometer that fits, and get a better measurement. 0.005" seems very tight, but I'll be sure to come back with results, you've had much more experience with this than I, so I trust you.
 

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With all rollers can go to the minimum .. I normally aim for .010-.015"

Shim that #8 , as long as you still feel a little freeplay on the output it's sweet
 

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Hey guys, nice reading. I just finished a 74 build and ended up, after a couple of trys, with .017 end play. Sweet. All new bushings and thrusts so l only played with the two front washers to get it.
Unrelated issue, l have a manual lever that won't allow me to install NSS right side up.
Anyone know whether it will do the job if installed up side down? 67 Fairlane floor shift behind 86 5 lt.
166181
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hey guys, nice reading. I just finished a 74 build and ended up, after a couple of trys, with .017 end play. Sweet. All new bushings and thrusts so l only played with the two front washers to get it.
Unrelated issue, l have a manual lever that won't allow me to install NSS right side up.
Anyone know whether it will do the job if installed up side down? 67 Fairlane floor shift behind 86 5 lt.
Kinda hijacking my post, and you'd get better answers on your own post, but I don't believe the holes will line up mounting the NSS upside down. Plus I don't think it'd even function properly mounted upside down because the contacts inside the MSS would not be lining up properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ok, I got the shims today.

I installed a .025" shim under the #8 bearing. I have attached a photo of the shim and it covers the 3 holes in the drum. Is it of any concern that they're covered up, appears to just be drainage or spots for the tangs on the original washer, and the bearing covers it anyways, but figured I'd clarify. That shim made the clearance for the snap ring so much better, looks a lot more like when I pulled it apart the first time, aka a pain to remove as it's a wire "c clip", not a snap ring, and I still have good feelable endplay on the output shaft.

I then have the #3 washer, I took a picture of where the backside of the washer would ride. It's fairly deceptive due to photo angle, depths are more pronounced, but the only thing contacting the washer would be the forward clutch hub. Nose of the planetary carrier would not be touching. Believe this is what you were refering too, and is proper, but just clarifying that this is correct.

I then installed a #2 washer, believe it was .065", and a #1 washer of .100", washer was stamped as a #3. Using your measuring method on the table, the .100" washer was a bit loose, and the next size up of .120" washer I had to tilt the pump over to fit it in, and would've been really tight had I bolted it all together. I wasn't sure which to install, seems like a .110" washer would be perfect. For endplay spec I used the .100" washer, knowing it doesn't effect the measurement. Which washer should I use, or can I get a .110" washer anywhere?

Then I checked endplay, perfect .014" of endplay, all from just installing that .025" shim under the #8 bearing!

I just need a couple points of clarification, and then I'll give the parts another thorough cleaning (dirty from sitting), and oiling. Appreciate all the help, this forum, and I, are lucky to have you!


1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg
 

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Ya, the holes are for the tangs on the original washer. No worries there.

As for the #3 washer... I "think" the nose of the planet is supposed to contact the #3 washer and the ring gear hub should "float" between the #3 and #4 washers.

I know it is that way on a C6, and I think it should be the same on the C4. I could be wrong....
 
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