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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys, I'm almost convinced an AOD is the way to go these days. I decided I want both performance and mileage and keeping the C4 won't get me that.....as far as I know.

I've got a 66 Fairlane with a near stock 289/C4 and 8" rear with 3:00 gears in it right now.

I've had others tell me the AOD is the way to go but making the swap and keeping the TV cable adjusted right makes me nervous since you can cook that AOD fast and they aren't cheap.

So tell me from your experience if you have one installed and how you like it and will it stay adjusted?

Sometimes change isn't easy and keeping the C4 which is running great and gives me no problems at all is the easiest to deal with but that doesn't make it better in the long run.
 

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Any one that has seen my posts knows where I stand. Your letters and numbers are still off a little and the answer is 4R70W. Stock it is twice the trans of an AOD. The electronics are a plus. An AOD will cost twice as much since it is hard to find a really good one. A 2000 + V6 Mustang trans with low miles should be less than $250 since they are plentiful and don't break. The Baumann US Shift is $425 and if you can modify the stock harness you are are almost there cost wise. That controller is worth every penny to not use an AOD. No throttle linkage required. It is the same amount of work so put the good one in in the first place.
 

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Hey Guys, I'm almost convinced an AOD is the way to go these days. I decided I want both performance and mileage and keeping the C4 won't get me that.....as far as I know.

I've got a 66 Fairlane with a near stock 289/C4 and 8" rear with 3:00 gears in it right now.

I've had others tell me the AOD is the way to go but making the swap and keeping the TV cable adjusted right makes me nervous since you can cook that AOD fast and they aren't cheap.

So tell me from your experience if you have one installed and how you like it and will it stay adjusted?

Sometimes change isn't easy and keeping the C4 which is running great and gives me no problems at all is the easiest to deal with but that doesn't make it better in the long run.

I have a AOD in my 70 Mach1 with a stock 351C except for FPA headers and MSD Ignition, I bought mine rebuilt from PATC ( Dominator Jr. Rated to 550 hp ) which cost $1500 but they shipped it from Louisiana to Kansas City for $50. I got my TV cable from Scott Drake I think but any way when I installed it the instructions said to have TV cable adjusted with a pressure gauge hooked to trans which I didn't have correct tools to do this so I hooked the coupler to the carb linkage then set the stop thing on the cable with the set screw up against coupiler then I drove it to a local trans guy in 3rd gear NOT overdrive to have it adjusted. He works on daily drivers but specializes in race cars, he didn't have time to adjust it with a gauge but showed me how to do it without, I had my wife set in car and depress pedal all the way to floor and hold it then I loosened set screw on cable and pulled on cable until it maxed out ( would not move anymore ) then moved stop up to linkage and tightened set screw, then he told me to take it for a drive and feel how and when it shifts gears, if it shifts early and hard you loosen the 2 9/16 nuts on the end of cable housing enough to move housing forward a thread or two then lock them down and drive again, if it shifts sloppy and late you do the reverse with the cable hosing as this is your shift adjustment point. I have mine set to shift from 1st to 2nd ( 10 ) 2nd to 3rd ( 30 ) and 3rd to overdrive ( 45 ). I have had no issues in 3 years with trans or coupiler / adjuster coming loose. I run a B & M trans cooler to keep the heat of the trans down.I'm getting 17.2 mpg with the junk Road Demon 4V and edelbrock 2V to 4V manifold so I going back to stock manifold and a rebuilt Motorcraft 2100 2V and hope to get 20 mpg. OH and I changed my rear gears from 3.00:1 to 3.50:1 which gave me a boast off the line. The car cruises 70 mph at 2200 rpm all day.Just my experience with a AOD.
 

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I don;t think Iwantmore was knocking the AOD, it was the only choice, up until recently, with the new Ford OD now plentiful it just makes sense to go with the 4r70w as he says its more than 2x as strong stock & installing a stock AOD, gets old pretty quick with their "shift when i want" to valve body so, if your like me, you end up switching the stock AOD valve body out for 1 like Lentechs which gives you full control over 1,2,3, shifts & a simple on/off switch for OD, valve body- another 500-700 bucks, add it up & you will see the later,stronger, electronic 4R70W just makes sense
 

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+1 on the 4R70W. Note that most of the expensive upgrades to the AOD are actually parts from the 4R70W. It also has the wide-ratio gear set as stock, so your 3.00 rear gear will actually leave like a 3.30 off the line but cruise OD like a 2.10 gear. For your purposes, any from a 3.8 Mustang, T-Bird, or 4.2 F-150 will fit, and any year from '94 through '98 has a speedometer cable drive. The earlier ones are still stronger than the AOD, though the strongest are '98+. Just sayin' in-case the speedo cable is important to you.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I like the idea of the 4R with a speedo cable but I'm concerned that my headers won't be wide enough since the bell housing is wider then the C4 and AOD. I think my tranny tunnel is plenty wide enough but I think there will be other fit issues. I'll go to the tech forum and reads the threads on both the 4R and AOD install again. I'd like to keep this install as easy as possible.

I thought I'd have to swap out the 3:00 gear to something like a 3:50 gear if I went with either the 4R or AOD so I don't burn up the converter? Did I imagine that or just get it wrong all together?
 

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Don't misunderstand I'm not knocking the 4R70W trans I'm just saying the AOD was a simple swap for my capabilities as a home garage builder. I'm not a wiring genius so I try to stay away from adding electronics into my car. I have a Painless chassis kit so all wiring is new and I want no cuts or modifications to it as everything works perfect. The only mods I had to do with the AOD swap was crossmember ( trans ) linkage to hookup to my floor shift, new driveshaft and a dropped bracket for the steering cylinder to clear FPA headers which had no clearance issues with the AOD.I did make one small mistake installing a 351C starter from PA Performance that wouldn't engage flywheel but they informed me I had to use a 95 Explorer starter which works perfect. Do what you want but for me this was an easy swap from the FMX trans and I am happy.
 

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I like the idea of the 4R with a speedo cable but I'm concerned that my headers won't be wide enough since the bell housing is wider then the C4 and AOD. I think my tranny tunnel is plenty wide enough but I think there will be other fit issues. I'll go to the tech forum and reads the threads on both the 4R and AOD install again. I'd like to keep this install as easy as possible.

I thought I'd have to swap out the 3:00 gear to something like a 3:50 gear if I went with either the 4R or AOD so I don't burn up the converter? Did I imagine that or just get it wrong all together?
Here is the link to my swap. There are pictures side by side and both are the same width which is why I suggest just starting with a 4R. I show How I cut my headers which are for a latter car like yours. Unlike an AOD the lock up is a clutch that you can adjust how you want it to work. You can also taylor shifting to your drive train. My 2001 has a speedo gear and I have seen them in 2002's. If you are not comfortable with the wiring buy a harness, TPS, and hook up 12 volts. About as hard as installing a radio.
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/tra...verdrive-transmission-older-classic-ford.html
 

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The AOD needs to be set up correctly, but keep in mind hundreds of thousands of these were produced and driven their whole lives never having the cable "readjusted"

Adjusting the pressure is ridiculously easy with a pressure gauge and it just takes a little thinking to hook it to a carb, especially with Lokar kits, etc.

With that being said, I would get a performance rebuild on any AOD I put in, and be sure its a hard shifting street/strip style tranny. Get the pressure requirements from the builder, and have the tranny shop set them there. After that it should last forever behind a combo like yours and even be ready for more if you decide to.

As far as gearing, I would run a 3.70 gear in that car, you could even go 3.89

That would give you a final drive of 3.70 x .67 = 2.48:1 and a 1st gear ratio of 3.70 x 2.40 = 8.88:1

A 3.89 would be 2.60:1 final and 9.33:1 1st gear (I actually like this a little bit better)

Comparing that to a 3.00 C-4 is final drive of 3.00 x 1.00 = 3.00, and a 1st gear ratio of 3.00 x 2.46 = 7.38:1

The AOD (or any overdrive) will be a win/win other than cost. Mileage will be up, in town acceleration will be much better, and it will be more fun on the highway

A bit of experience, my 489 inch FE with a TKO-600 gets better mileage on the highway and in town with a 4.10 gear vs the 3.70 that was in it. The highway mileage is because my final drive was just too tall for the cam, but in town, the motor works much less from stoplight to stoplight. Although your cam isn't very radical, the torque of a stock SBF would probably create the same situation, so I wouldn't go much less than that final drive of 2.48 ish

It's not because you will burn up the converter though, it's because you want to be in an efficient torque range for the motor during the desired use of the car. My Mustang actually did pretty well at 80 mph with the tall gears, but I couldn't cruise there all the time or I'd be in jail, the gear change put the motor at an RPM it liked for calm cruisng, yours would be the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the help guys! It does sound like a win win no matter which OD I go with. Should I get the rear gears set up first then do the tranny or the other way around? It would be fun to do both at the same time...:)

BTW....427Stang, every time I see your 70 it makes me miss mine, it wouldn't take me long to get to NE since I'm in KS. I went to high school in Omaha!

Wanna trade?:rolleyes:
 

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I am switching out my AOD for a 4R70W. I did not like the shift pattern from the AOD. Hated doing the AOD shuffle when shifting. I know these things can be fixed with a valve body and a torque converter. I did like the MPG I got with it. It was in my 63 Country Sedan behind a 351w. I got 20 mpg cruising on the freeway at 70 mph. Rear end ratio is a 3.70:1. That first gear off the line I didn't care for much. I also had a stock stall converter in it. I believe that had a lot to do with the lack of get up and go. For what it cost, I would go with the 4r over the AOD. I am getting ready to throw in a rebuilt engine and like the idea of having the stronger trans that is the 4r.

Larry
 

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jr

I"m doing a 62 Country Sedan, installng a cleveland
what if any problems did you run into installing the 4r70w
into your 63?
which controller did you use?
best
Dave
 

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not on point but related
the reason for the after market controller on the AODE or 4r70w
is the security code, which is coded to the car.
Its funny that some brite geek has not found a way to break this
code, since they can break almost any other security on computers.
would save a lot of extra money...
best
 

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Dave,

I had to move the trans cross member back a few inches. I used the Baumann controller (USshift) works great. Make sure you get the trans out of a 1999 V-6 Mustang or a V-6 F-150 or the 5.0. You can tell if the trans will bolt up if the starter has a two bolt starter. If it is a three bolt starter it is for a mod motor. Depending on the rear gears you use you will want to check for a trans that has a speedo output gears on the output shaft. try and get the one with seven teeth. Mine had the 8 tooth gear. I had it changed out. I am running a 3.70:1 rear gear. The other problem that I am having is my B&M megashifter is not working really well with my trans. Kind of have to hunt for it a bit to find the detentes.

Iwantmore has a post above that has a link to his installation of the 4r70w. It is very well written. He is the guy I followed when I installed mine. I originally had the AOD (Hated it) Love the 4r70w. Deeper first gear and more fun to switch between shifting patterns.

I talked with Kevin at The US Shift Transmission Control System he mentioned that their next controller you can have the choice between 4 different shift patterns. He said they can reflash my controller to be able to do this.

I sent you a PM on your question about motor mounts.

Larry
 

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I realize this is after the fact, but:
I'm concerned that my headers won't be wide enough since the bell housing is wider then the C4 and AOD.
The bells are each about the same size, as they all use 164T flex plates and bell pattern. It's the shape that's different ('bowl' shape vs 'funnel' shape), and if your header collectors end halfway-down the bell, that would be the only concern for them by about an inch. Easy to look to confirm or deny. One other option is the C4 with 157 or 141-tooth bell and flexplate for a bit more clearance.
I thought I'd have to swap out the 3:00 gear to something like a 3:50 gear if I went with either the 4R or AOD so I don't burn up the converter? Did I imagine that or just get it wrong all together?
3.00:1 is no problem, as the big 'n heavy Crown Vic family for example uses the 2.73 gears as standard. Earlier AOD versions used 3.08. The reason for the change is the 4R70W's lower 1st gear ("W" = Wide ratio), making the overall gearing with 2.73s equivalent to 3.12s, or 3.00s like 3.44s. The lower 1st gear (and slightly lower 2nd) makes a noticeable difference in the stoplight acceleration of most cars, yet maintains the same OD gearing.
not on point but related
the reason for the after market controller on the AODE or 4r70w
is the security code, which is coded to the car.
Its funny that some brite geek has not found a way to break this
code, since they can break almost any other security on computers.
would save a lot of extra money...
best
Actually, the codes have been broken for some time. The issue now is how Ford has the ECM control calculations tied to other engine and chassis parameters. Unlike GM and other control schemes; unless using the ECM as part of a relatively stock engine and trans combo with all the inputs, the ECM gets a bit confused trying to control just the tranny. While there may be someone that has figured it out, so far I have not found anyone that has had good success configuring the EEC to control only the tranny. This is the main reason the aftermarket controllers are popular. Also, with no other programming gizmos or software - plug-in, drive, adjust to your liking and requirements. Done.

David
 

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Don't misunderstand I'm not knocking the 4R70W trans I'm just saying the AOD was a simple swap for my capabilities as a home garage builder. I'm not a wiring genius so I try to stay away from adding electronics into my car. I have a Painless chassis kit so all wiring is new and I want no cuts or modifications to it as everything works perfect. The only mods I had to do with the AOD swap was crossmember ( trans ) linkage to hookup to my floor shift, new driveshaft and a dropped bracket for the steering cylinder to clear FPA headers which had no clearance issues with the AOD.I did make one small mistake installing a 351C starter from PA Performance that wouldn't engage flywheel but they informed me I had to use a 95 Explorer starter which works perfect. Do what you want but for me this was an easy swap from the FMX trans and I am happy.
Leadfoot, do you have the part number for the PA Performance starter? I am putting a PATC AOD behind a 351C, and PA Performance doesn't have a listing for a starter for a 90's Explorer, and PATC has no idea what starter to use - "they are transmission guys, not starter guys".
 

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Rickracer- In regards to AOD,4R70/Headers, I did get a set of the Hooker 6134';s to fit with the AOD, but, bit tramatic cutting up brand new headers, but it works. I had to heat/hammer the inside of pass.side collector to clear the OD's fat bell & dr.side collector we had to cut collector off & re-angle it to clear bell, bend exhaust pipe to match up to trans hump, but it all worked out. Next time, I will use shorties with the 4R70,
switched out rear gears to 3:73;s, just a perfect combo for out of the hole & cruise.
good luck
 
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