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restomod - 2:09 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

i need to know where i can get an a-servo for my c4.i want to improve my shift pionts and make them firmer.thanks Tommy

p.s. i will also be adding a shift kit too .

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chilly460 - 2:40 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

http://www.performanceautomatic.com

Very well regarded c4 shop.
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drag79stang - 8:04 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

You do not want an ';A ' servo. That is the twinkiest/weakest shifting servo you can get for a C4.
The factory MONGO servo is an 'H'.
I recommend going to Pro Automatics homepage and getting their custom 'BIGGER THAN AN H' servo, along with their kevlar intermediate band. Your C4 will shift so hard into 2nd gear it'll literally rattle your teeth. (that is if you have a modified valve body (i.e. kit/manual/whatever), also installed.
In the very least, get a H servo. Jegs, Summit, and I'm sure 'others' sell their version of the H servo, but by far, if you're going to spend the bucks to upgrade, I would get Pro Automatics custom servo.
Good luck with your trans.
later, Steve
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

drag79stang - 8:08 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

My mistake. It's Performance Automatic. (been a while since I purchased mine).

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restomod - 9:29 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

thanks guys . i really want it to shift harder and faster . it shifts slower than christmas now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 12:33 am on Mar. 17, 2001

I'm just curious what the diameter of the apply + release sections of the H servo are.

Has anyone tried the mod of removing the outer seals from the piston ,grind channels into outer area,plug apply hole in case. this then uses the large area of the piston to apply 2nd.[see below]

there is supposed to be a C servo also that came from hi performance 289s.

To get a nice hard shift to top gear upgrade to 5 plates by machining the pressure plate + using thinner .061" steels.
Do you want to keep the trans as an auto shifter or convert to full manual??
I have in the past used TRANSGO stage 2 kits which work well.
also keep in mind if you have a high stall convertor the shifts will feel softer at light throttle .

good luck..

Edited by: gregaust

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Tim R - 11:45 am on Mar. 17, 2001

Gregaust,
I have used that mod with very good success only had one that I have had trouble with a leak at the gasket as I think that the cover is flexing I am planning on making a girdle for it and using studs in stead of bolts. also you can make a new pressure plate for that clutch drum by welding 2 steels together, use plug welds in 8 places equally spaced around the steel and make sure that the 2 steels are lined up straight it has worked great in several of my trannies. another upgrade that I have done is to add roller bearings to the 2 planetaries to reduce drag I have a friend that ordered a kit from one of the major tranny builders listed above and I just copied what they did it was quit easy and the bearings are cheap to since you only need 3 of them. I also make my own ful manual valve body out of stock one. I copied and old B&M Manual Pak they called it. to bad they don't make it any more it is a great kit. It takes a little bit of time to make , but well worth it and I like the forward shift pattern. By the way I almost forgot the hole in the case that is plugged for that servo mod is not the apply hole it is actually a vent that is between the normal apply and release seals of the piston, and the reason that there is some trouble with the cover gasket leaking is that when you modify the piston that way the outer cover gasket sees full apply pressure which it never did factory. The way that I plug it is that I tap the hole with a 3/8" tap in about 1" or so and than I cut off a piece of 3/8" threaded rod that I cut a screwdriver slot in one end of and screw it in to the hole so it is just below the edge of the cover. I hope that this helps you with your trans mods it just goes to show that you can have a great C4 for little money if you can do it yourself, I do and they work great a friend as one of mine and he runs 11.20's with no trouble and that is without rollers yet. I am currently getting ready to put one behind a 514 big block so wish me luck.

Edited by: Tim R

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Greg Cook - 3:30 pm on Mar. 17, 2001

Tim R,

I have had a C-4 behind a 514 in my 63 Galaxie (3800 lbs) for two years. It runs 10.40s and sees street time. If you prep it right it will be fine. There are lots of guys around here running BIG power through C-4s. Mine is from Performance Automatics.

----------
Greg 514 Don't force it. Get a bigger hammer!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

restomod - 3:40 pm on Mar. 17, 2001

how many slots should be cut into the piston? how big should the slots be ?you guys know your stuff.i am also interested in the roller bearing conversion also. thanks Tommy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 7:40 pm on Mar. 17, 2001

Thanks tim for your response.i realised later thet i put the wrong description for the case hole but forgot to go back.
I have scanned another tip below which i know will help you guys that build your own trans which i found in a recent article. i have tried this and it works well + saves the expense of new planetaries or having to find good used ones.hope this helps.
i will try to post some v.bmods that i've tried with good results.
to restomod,the slots in the pic are hard to see but there's 3 slots evenly spaced around the circumference.they look about 1/2" wide and the depth of the o'ring groove.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

restomod - 1:02 am on Mar. 18, 2001

cool that means that i have a c10 in my 68 .where did you get this artcle . i have not seen any thing like that here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 7:06 am on Mar. 18, 2001

restomod ,that article is from aust mag called performance build ups.i have posted the rest in the hope of helping others.
i have collected several us articles but none as comprehensive as this.
hope this helps you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roadwarrior - 11:16 am on Mar. 18, 2001

Tim R. I'm in the closing stages of my c-4 build. Thanks for all the tips you gave on the old board. I filled the 3 center jelly bean holes on intermediate clutch drum with weld, then remachined the area flat on a lathe, with the help of the local vo-tech instructors expertise. I drilled 4 3/8 holes in the forward clutch drum, and removed the outer seal on the forward band servo and plugged the fluid return. I'm installing a cheap transgo shift as well. Its going to be ran up on a tranny dyno in the next week or two. Wish me luck.
And if any of you guys are tranny shopping in the junkyard, look for a C-4 out a f-100 or f-150 pick-up. Truck C-4s have 4 clutches in the forward clutch opposed to the 3 in car trannies. They also have separate bolt patterns for the pump and bellhousing, car trans utilize the same pattern for both.
Roadwarrior

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64 TBOLT - 1:02 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

I posted a question a while ago if there is any difference in the car or truck C4, I was told NO there is'nt, guess there IS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

64 TBOLT - 1:26 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

whats a C10,what did it come in?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mario428 - 3:07 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

The selling point of the aftermarket servoes in the reduced area of the larger sealed surface. The backside of the piston is used as an accumulator for the high gear clutch. The aftermarket piston does not ride in the case but in the servo cover meaning it takes less fluid to apply high gear.
I run a C-4 in a Futura with a 428 that goes 10.79 and the intermediate band has never been a problem but I kill high gear because it will not shift fast enough and the clutches slip too much.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

drag79stang - 5:23 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

Last year I was on a major TIGHT budget, and in the midst of my C4 overhaul, didn't have the extra bucks for the custom/original/whatever H type servo, so I ended up using the A servo that came with the junkyard dog trans I was going thru.
At that time, (last year), I was only running maybe 420+ HP in a 2700 pound car. I didn't make it 7 runs until I literally lost 2nd gear. The band (brand new TCI), was smoked.
I yanked the trans, inspected everything, and just replaced the band with the Pro auto Kevlar band, and replaced the A servo with Pro auto's custom one. (supposed to be bigger/better than the H servo). Well, to make a long story short, the car rattles your teeth when it hits 2nd gear now.
This winter I"ve taken the trans apart again, (just to check it out...also added a manual valve body), and everything was pristine.
I wouldn't advise going anything smaller than an H servo for any application.
My .002 worth. Steve

drag79stang

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

89 coupe - 7:02 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

Try putting a rigid front Kevlar lined band in it and bumping the main line pressure to 240PSI. You better have a very loose converter otherwise it will bust u-joints every shift. Converter cushions the shift. The trans still shifts as hard, just the converter "absorbs" most of the "shock".

----------
KENT--'65 Fairlane 500 wagon w/351W(soon to be 13.5 to 1 solid roller 392), '89 coupe(in progress)w/418 stroker, '88 California GT(totally stock), '78 Fairmont Wagon w/392
My website- http://www.musclemustangsfords.homestead.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

89 coupe - 7:14 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

BTW, there is a "C" servo that I got from a GT350H C-4 and I also have an "R" servo from a 4WD C-4 that had a bolt on yoke instead of a slip on. I would put more about what to do and what doesn't need to be done that everbody has been told you must do but I've written so much on another forum and got so many e-mails with questions that I don't want to go thru that again. I'm burned out from this subject. I'll just stick to building them instead.

----------
KENT--'65 Fairlane 500 wagon w/351W(soon to be 13.5 to 1 solid roller 392), '89 coupe(in progress)w/418 stroker, '88 California GT(totally stock), '78 Fairmont Wagon w/392
My website- http://www.musclemustangsfords.homestead.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim R - 11:57 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

Gregaust,
from what I could see of that artical I would like to see more of it, but it is hard to read is there any way to get a good copy of it? Thanks
Tim R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim R - 12:21 am on Mar. 19, 2001

Restomod,
PA adds 3 rollers total to the front and rear planetaries, this is what I copied, use GM TH350 Stator support bearings
Delco Pt# 9436851
they are about $8.00 each from a trans shop. You need to do some machining to the hard parts of the trans though to adjust for the thicker roller bearings they are .140" thick compared to the .065" of a new thrust washer so you will need to machine @ .075" races for them to be located in and then make sure to recheck total endplay in the trans and adjust that with your selective washers they are available from any trans shop. You will cut these into the front side of the reverse drum, the output shaft hub (make sure to leave the center in this one so that outside snapring stays tight), the forward clutch hub, and you will need to turn down the inside portion of the front planetary so that it will fit into the center of the roller bearing that goes in that spot. I hope that this info helps you save a few bucks let me know if I can help anymore OK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 4:52 am on Mar. 19, 2001

roadwarrior
instead of the shift kit since you are experimenting anyway why not try the v.b mods on the last page of the article.i have tried these and they work well.only difference i did was to leave out the accumulator spring (as most shift kits do anyway.)+ put a 1/4"ball bearing in the cutback valve .you fit the ball in first ,then the cutback valve.you may have to grind the little knob on the end of the cutback valve so it sits flush with the v.b + so the end cover will sit flat.

drag79stang, not sure what happened with the 'A'servo but i have used one of them in falcon which has run 10.8sec 1/4s and after 18 months use it looked like brand new.

89 coupe, i have also used the'R'servos with good results.any chance you could tell us the other forum as i would be keen to have a look.i enjoy experimenting with autos so any tips i can get i would be very grateful.
here in aust it is very hard to get any good info.

would anyone have the measurements of the 'H' servo apply + release + the 'PRO'servo measurements.
heres some measurements i have..
'A'servo..apply=72mm..release=96.5mm
'R'servo..apply=72mm..release=83mm
this has turned into a good post so thanks for everyones input.

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Tim R - 5:32 pm on Mar. 19, 2001

I measured an H servo that I have laying around and it is 2.960" apply and 3.785 release. Hope this helps.

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Tim R - 5:57 pm on Mar. 19, 2001

89 Coupe,
I wish that you would think about posting any info that you can share if it is different than some of the things that others of us are doing as it may be helpful. I for one would like to learn all that I can about building a better Mouse/Rat Trap.
Tim R.

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restomod - 11:38 pm on Mar. 19, 2001

this is more info than i could ever use .but i will try to use every bit of it . does any one have the part numbers for the h-servo and the cover. thanks Tommy

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drgrcr - 1:53 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

I too have had good luck using the A-H-R servos, we recently freshened the C-4 out of a 11 second 351W Ranchero that had over 400 pass on it and the high clutches were the only parts that had any wear. That trans is using the "A" servo with the slots in the apply side of the servo and the plugged case. That trans also use's the Kevlar wrap style intermediate band, there was no wear on it. Now with all that said, I would like to try the "R" servo, because of the smaller release side, just to see if we could improve the durability of the high gear clutche's by improving the apply time due to the smaller release side of that servo. Any thoughts?


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drgrcr - 1:57 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

Another problem we have found with using too much line pressure, is it will bend/break the forward clutch belville spring. We have good luck with as little as 150-175 PSI.

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drgrcr - 1:58 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

Another problem we have found with using too much line pressure, is it will bend/break the forward clutch belville spring. We have good luck with as little as 150-175 PSI.

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restomod - 4:29 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

what kind of book should i buy on rebuilding trannys.

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64 TBOLT - 5:59 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

WHAT IS A C10

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drag79stang - 7:56 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

gregaust.
I don't know what happened either. All I know is that from day 1 it HIT hard into 2nd, but each subsequent run it'd get a little softer, a little softer, until about the 7th run, 2nd was not there under a load.
Took the trans apart, and the band (brand new tci one out of their master overhaul kit), was black/smoked. At that time I ordered and installed Pro auto's kevlar band and their super duper servo. Have made 14+ runs (before motor went kaput), last year. It hit hard, and still hits hard in 2nd.
We'll see how the whole gig holds up to some real power this year, tho. Something's gotta give....probably the trans.

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drag79stang - 8:00 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

gregaust.
I don't know what happened either. All I know is that from day 1 it HIT hard into 2nd, but each subsequent run it'd get a little softer, a little softer, until about the 7th run, 2nd was not there under a load.
Took the trans apart, and the band (brand new tci one out of their master overhaul kit), was black/smoked. At that time I ordered and installed Pro auto's kevlar band and their super duper servo. Have made 14+ runs (before motor went kaput), last year. It hit hard, and still hits hard in 2nd.
We'll see how the whole gig holds up to some real power this year, tho. Something's gotta give....probably the trans.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just Jim - 8:29 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

64 T Bolt, I believe a C10 is a Australian term for a big case C4,the kind where the dipstick tube goes into the pan.They are usually found in full size cars or light duty trucks here in the States.

Very informative post by the way.Lots of good stuff here.

----------
'58 Morris Minor 289 S/S MM
'62 Falcon 351W "Just Falcon Around"

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gregaust - 5:23 am on Mar. 21, 2001

Just Jim is right.i'm not sure where the term originated .i've never seen c10 written in any U.S books or ford workshop manuals.it definitely seems to be an australian term.

maybe someone has an explanation where this came from.just to confuse the issue some more i have even seen some C4s called C9s.i'm not sure what variation of a C4 that is .

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Richy - 8:35 pm on Mar. 26, 2001

Warning when its cold out 30 deg.& below. And you have very high line presher let your trany warm up fully befor you pull it in gear! or you can blow off the low & reverce and intermediat servo cover right off the trany. It will strip the threads right out of the case. On my C-4 it also broke the ears off the case where the intermediat cover bolts to the case. loads of fun Richy


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: admin on 12/22/01 2:19am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: admin on 12/22/01 2:21am ]</font>
 

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On 2001-12-21 14:14, admin wrote:
This post was transferred from the old Forums


restomod - 2:09 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

i need to know where i can get an a-servo for my c4.i want to improve my shift pionts and make them firmer.thanks Tommy

p.s. i will also be adding a shift kit too .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

chilly460 - 2:40 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

http://www.performanceautomatic.com

Very well regarded c4 shop.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

drag79stang - 8:04 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

You do not want an ';A ' servo. That is the twinkiest/weakest shifting servo you can get for a C4.
The factory MONGO servo is an 'H'.
I recommend going to Pro Automatics homepage and getting their custom 'BIGGER THAN AN H' servo, along with their kevlar intermediate band. Your C4 will shift so hard into 2nd gear it'll literally rattle your teeth. (that is if you have a modified valve body (i.e. kit/manual/whatever), also installed.
In the very least, get a H servo. Jegs, Summit, and I'm sure 'others' sell their version of the H servo, but by far, if you're going to spend the bucks to upgrade, I would get Pro Automatics custom servo.
Good luck with your trans.
later, Steve
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

drag79stang - 8:08 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

My mistake. It's Performance Automatic. (been a while since I purchased mine).

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restomod - 9:29 pm on Mar. 16, 2001

thanks guys . i really want it to shift harder and faster . it shifts slower than christmas now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 12:33 am on Mar. 17, 2001

I'm just curious what the diameter of the apply + release sections of the H servo are.

Has anyone tried the mod of removing the outer seals from the piston ,grind channels into outer area,plug apply hole in case. this then uses the large area of the piston to apply 2nd.[see below]

there is supposed to be a C servo also that came from hi performance 289s.

To get a nice hard shift to top gear upgrade to 5 plates by machining the pressure plate + using thinner .061" steels.
Do you want to keep the trans as an auto shifter or convert to full manual??
I have in the past used TRANSGO stage 2 kits which work well.
also keep in mind if you have a high stall convertor the shifts will feel softer at light throttle .

good luck..

Edited by: gregaust

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim R - 11:45 am on Mar. 17, 2001

Gregaust,
I have used that mod with very good success only had one that I have had trouble with a leak at the gasket as I think that the cover is flexing I am planning on making a girdle for it and using studs in stead of bolts. also you can make a new pressure plate for that clutch drum by welding 2 steels together, use plug welds in 8 places equally spaced around the steel and make sure that the 2 steels are lined up straight it has worked great in several of my trannies. another upgrade that I have done is to add roller bearings to the 2 planetaries to reduce drag I have a friend that ordered a kit from one of the major tranny builders listed above and I just copied what they did it was quit easy and the bearings are cheap to since you only need 3 of them. I also make my own ful manual valve body out of stock one. I copied and old B&M Manual Pak they called it. to bad they don't make it any more it is a great kit. It takes a little bit of time to make , but well worth it and I like the forward shift pattern. By the way I almost forgot the hole in the case that is plugged for that servo mod is not the apply hole it is actually a vent that is between the normal apply and release seals of the piston, and the reason that there is some trouble with the cover gasket leaking is that when you modify the piston that way the outer cover gasket sees full apply pressure which it never did factory. The way that I plug it is that I tap the hole with a 3/8" tap in about 1" or so and than I cut off a piece of 3/8" threaded rod that I cut a screwdriver slot in one end of and screw it in to the hole so it is just below the edge of the cover. I hope that this helps you with your trans mods it just goes to show that you can have a great C4 for little money if you can do it yourself, I do and they work great a friend as one of mine and he runs 11.20's with no trouble and that is without rollers yet. I am currently getting ready to put one behind a 514 big block so wish me luck.

Edited by: Tim R

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Greg Cook - 3:30 pm on Mar. 17, 2001

Tim R,

I have had a C-4 behind a 514 in my 63 Galaxie (3800 lbs) for two years. It runs 10.40s and sees street time. If you prep it right it will be fine. There are lots of guys around here running BIG power through C-4s. Mine is from Performance Automatics.

----------
Greg 514 Don't force it. Get a bigger hammer!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

restomod - 3:40 pm on Mar. 17, 2001

how many slots should be cut into the piston? how big should the slots be ?you guys know your stuff.i am also interested in the roller bearing conversion also. thanks Tommy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 7:40 pm on Mar. 17, 2001

Thanks tim for your response.i realised later thet i put the wrong description for the case hole but forgot to go back.
I have scanned another tip below which i know will help you guys that build your own trans which i found in a recent article. i have tried this and it works well + saves the expense of new planetaries or having to find good used ones.hope this helps.
i will try to post some v.bmods that i've tried with good results.
to restomod,the slots in the pic are hard to see but there's 3 slots evenly spaced around the circumference.they look about 1/2" wide and the depth of the o'ring groove.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

restomod - 1:02 am on Mar. 18, 2001

cool that means that i have a c10 in my 68 .where did you get this artcle . i have not seen any thing like that here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 7:06 am on Mar. 18, 2001

restomod ,that article is from aust mag called performance build ups.i have posted the rest in the hope of helping others.
i have collected several us articles but none as comprehensive as this.
hope this helps you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roadwarrior - 11:16 am on Mar. 18, 2001

Tim R. I'm in the closing stages of my c-4 build. Thanks for all the tips you gave on the old board. I filled the 3 center jelly bean holes on intermediate clutch drum with weld, then remachined the area flat on a lathe, with the help of the local vo-tech instructors expertise. I drilled 4 3/8 holes in the forward clutch drum, and removed the outer seal on the forward band servo and plugged the fluid return. I'm installing a cheap transgo shift as well. Its going to be ran up on a tranny dyno in the next week or two. Wish me luck.
And if any of you guys are tranny shopping in the junkyard, look for a C-4 out a f-100 or f-150 pick-up. Truck C-4s have 4 clutches in the forward clutch opposed to the 3 in car trannies. They also have separate bolt patterns for the pump and bellhousing, car trans utilize the same pattern for both.
Roadwarrior

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

64 TBOLT - 1:02 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

I posted a question a while ago if there is any difference in the car or truck C4, I was told NO there is'nt, guess there IS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

64 TBOLT - 1:26 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

whats a C10,what did it come in?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mario428 - 3:07 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

The selling point of the aftermarket servoes in the reduced area of the larger sealed surface. The backside of the piston is used as an accumulator for the high gear clutch. The aftermarket piston does not ride in the case but in the servo cover meaning it takes less fluid to apply high gear.
I run a C-4 in a Futura with a 428 that goes 10.79 and the intermediate band has never been a problem but I kill high gear because it will not shift fast enough and the clutches slip too much.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

drag79stang - 5:23 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

Last year I was on a major TIGHT budget, and in the midst of my C4 overhaul, didn't have the extra bucks for the custom/original/whatever H type servo, so I ended up using the A servo that came with the junkyard dog trans I was going thru.
At that time, (last year), I was only running maybe 420+ HP in a 2700 pound car. I didn't make it 7 runs until I literally lost 2nd gear. The band (brand new TCI), was smoked.
I yanked the trans, inspected everything, and just replaced the band with the Pro auto Kevlar band, and replaced the A servo with Pro auto's custom one. (supposed to be bigger/better than the H servo). Well, to make a long story short, the car rattles your teeth when it hits 2nd gear now.
This winter I"ve taken the trans apart again, (just to check it out...also added a manual valve body), and everything was pristine.
I wouldn't advise going anything smaller than an H servo for any application.
My .002 worth. Steve

drag79stang

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

89 coupe - 7:02 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

Try putting a rigid front Kevlar lined band in it and bumping the main line pressure to 240PSI. You better have a very loose converter otherwise it will bust u-joints every shift. Converter cushions the shift. The trans still shifts as hard, just the converter "absorbs" most of the "shock".

----------
KENT--'65 Fairlane 500 wagon w/351W(soon to be 13.5 to 1 solid roller 392), '89 coupe(in progress)w/418 stroker, '88 California GT(totally stock), '78 Fairmont Wagon w/392
My website- http://www.musclemustangsfords.homestead.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

89 coupe - 7:14 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

BTW, there is a "C" servo that I got from a GT350H C-4 and I also have an "R" servo from a 4WD C-4 that had a bolt on yoke instead of a slip on. I would put more about what to do and what doesn't need to be done that everbody has been told you must do but I've written so much on another forum and got so many e-mails with questions that I don't want to go thru that again. I'm burned out from this subject. I'll just stick to building them instead.

----------
KENT--'65 Fairlane 500 wagon w/351W(soon to be 13.5 to 1 solid roller 392), '89 coupe(in progress)w/418 stroker, '88 California GT(totally stock), '78 Fairmont Wagon w/392
My website- http://www.musclemustangsfords.homestead.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim R - 11:57 pm on Mar. 18, 2001

Gregaust,
from what I could see of that artical I would like to see more of it, but it is hard to read is there any way to get a good copy of it? Thanks
Tim R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim R - 12:21 am on Mar. 19, 2001

Restomod,
PA adds 3 rollers total to the front and rear planetaries, this is what I copied, use GM TH350 Stator support bearings
Delco Pt# 9436851
they are about $8.00 each from a trans shop. You need to do some machining to the hard parts of the trans though to adjust for the thicker roller bearings they are .140" thick compared to the .065" of a new thrust washer so you will need to machine @ .075" races for them to be located in and then make sure to recheck total endplay in the trans and adjust that with your selective washers they are available from any trans shop. You will cut these into the front side of the reverse drum, the output shaft hub (make sure to leave the center in this one so that outside snapring stays tight), the forward clutch hub, and you will need to turn down the inside portion of the front planetary so that it will fit into the center of the roller bearing that goes in that spot. I hope that this info helps you save a few bucks let me know if I can help anymore OK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

gregaust - 4:52 am on Mar. 19, 2001

roadwarrior
instead of the shift kit since you are experimenting anyway why not try the v.b mods on the last page of the article.i have tried these and they work well.only difference i did was to leave out the accumulator spring (as most shift kits do anyway.)+ put a 1/4"ball bearing in the cutback valve .you fit the ball in first ,then the cutback valve.you may have to grind the little knob on the end of the cutback valve so it sits flush with the v.b + so the end cover will sit flat.

drag79stang, not sure what happened with the 'A'servo but i have used one of them in falcon which has run 10.8sec 1/4s and after 18 months use it looked like brand new.

89 coupe, i have also used the'R'servos with good results.any chance you could tell us the other forum as i would be keen to have a look.i enjoy experimenting with autos so any tips i can get i would be very grateful.
here in aust it is very hard to get any good info.

would anyone have the measurements of the 'H' servo apply + release + the 'PRO'servo measurements.
heres some measurements i have..
'A'servo..apply=72mm..release=96.5mm
'R'servo..apply=72mm..release=83mm
this has turned into a good post so thanks for everyones input.

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Tim R - 5:32 pm on Mar. 19, 2001

I measured an H servo that I have laying around and it is 2.960" apply and 3.785 release. Hope this helps.

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Tim R - 5:57 pm on Mar. 19, 2001

89 Coupe,
I wish that you would think about posting any info that you can share if it is different than some of the things that others of us are doing as it may be helpful. I for one would like to learn all that I can about building a better Mouse/Rat Trap.
Tim R.

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restomod - 11:38 pm on Mar. 19, 2001

this is more info than i could ever use .but i will try to use every bit of it . does any one have the part numbers for the h-servo and the cover. thanks Tommy

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drgrcr - 1:53 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

I too have had good luck using the A-H-R servos, we recently freshened the C-4 out of a 11 second 351W Ranchero that had over 400 pass on it and the high clutches were the only parts that had any wear. That trans is using the "A" servo with the slots in the apply side of the servo and the plugged case. That trans also use's the Kevlar wrap style intermediate band, there was no wear on it. Now with all that said, I would like to try the "R" servo, because of the smaller release side, just to see if we could improve the durability of the high gear clutche's by improving the apply time due to the smaller release side of that servo. Any thoughts?


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drgrcr - 1:57 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

Another problem we have found with using too much line pressure, is it will bend/break the forward clutch belville spring. We have good luck with as little as 150-175 PSI.

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drgrcr - 1:58 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

Another problem we have found with using too much line pressure, is it will bend/break the forward clutch belville spring. We have good luck with as little as 150-175 PSI.

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restomod - 4:29 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

what kind of book should i buy on rebuilding trannys.

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64 TBOLT - 5:59 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

WHAT IS A C10

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drag79stang - 7:56 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

gregaust.
I don't know what happened either. All I know is that from day 1 it HIT hard into 2nd, but each subsequent run it'd get a little softer, a little softer, until about the 7th run, 2nd was not there under a load.
Took the trans apart, and the band (brand new tci one out of their master overhaul kit), was black/smoked. At that time I ordered and installed Pro auto's kevlar band and their super duper servo. Have made 14+ runs (before motor went kaput), last year. It hit hard, and still hits hard in 2nd.
We'll see how the whole gig holds up to some real power this year, tho. Something's gotta give....probably the trans.

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drag79stang - 8:00 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

gregaust.
I don't know what happened either. All I know is that from day 1 it HIT hard into 2nd, but each subsequent run it'd get a little softer, a little softer, until about the 7th run, 2nd was not there under a load.
Took the trans apart, and the band (brand new tci one out of their master overhaul kit), was black/smoked. At that time I ordered and installed Pro auto's kevlar band and their super duper servo. Have made 14+ runs (before motor went kaput), last year. It hit hard, and still hits hard in 2nd.
We'll see how the whole gig holds up to some real power this year, tho. Something's gotta give....probably the trans.

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Just Jim - 8:29 pm on Mar. 20, 2001

64 T Bolt, I believe a C10 is a Australian term for a big case C4,the kind where the dipstick tube goes into the pan.They are usually found in full size cars or light duty trucks here in the States.

Very informative post by the way.Lots of good stuff here.

----------
'58 Morris Minor 289 S/S MM
'62 Falcon 351W "Just Falcon Around"

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gregaust - 5:23 am on Mar. 21, 2001

Just Jim is right.i'm not sure where the term originated .i've never seen c10 written in any U.S books or ford workshop manuals.it definitely seems to be an australian term.

maybe someone has an explanation where this came from.just to confuse the issue some more i have even seen some C4s called C9s.i'm not sure what variation of a C4 that is .

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Richy - 8:35 pm on Mar. 26, 2001

Warning when its cold out 30 deg.& below. And you have very high line presher let your trany warm up fully befor you pull it in gear! or you can blow off the low & reverce and intermediat servo cover right off the trany. It will strip the threads right out of the case. On my C-4 it also broke the ears off the case where the intermediat cover bolts to the case. loads of fun Richy


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