[CobraMcgee]

Hey folks,

I've got a set of the heads mentioned in the title, and I'm having a hard time finding any info on them. A google search pulls up nothing but the C6FE-6090-A or the C2SE-6090-B. Neither of which are the same as the ones I have. A search of this forum also resulted in nothing. So I'm wondering if anyone with experience could shed some light on the situation. They're dated 1965, and they're obviously big block heads. I know that the "A" heads were used on the 289 GT40, which leads me to think that these could be the 427 GT40 heads(?). I don't like to speculate, but given the lack of available info, that's kinda where I'm at right now. The unfortunate part is that one of them was damaged due to a liberated piston, but the other is in great shape. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Especially if it confirms my assumption.

Cheers!

 

[BrewBoy]

Interesting question, so I did some internet surfing and found this Shelby forum post:

67 GT500 drag car | Page 2 | Shelby Forums - Carroll Shelby - GT350 - GT500

 

[extech]

c6 head cannot be dated 65 as the 6 indicates production in 66

 

[CobraMcgee]

They're dated 11-23-65. Once I have a chance to sit down and get some images hosted, I'll post some links to pictures.

 

[CobraMcgee]

https://ibb.co/VvZJLMw
https://ibb.co/k5CmHkS
https://ibb.co/C9xxSX6
https://ibb.co/0tCGX7n

Let's see if those work

 

[BrewBoy]

There's a guy on another forum whose family is deeply connected with Ford & NASCAR. I uploaded your photos, and here's his response:

Probably came off a 427 medium riser. Dealer ordered and installed but your guess is as good as mine. Someone wanted more than the cast iron heads delivered. Mostly weight savings and could stand a bit higher compression without the death rattle. All over the board on prices, depends on if they need any touch-up machine work. If those are sodium filled valves they got to go. Bare heads somewhere around $2500.

 

[GT350HR]

Cobra McGee,
Those are indeed aluminum medium riser heads made for the GT40 MKII . It is the second version as the first had the C5AE designation. NEITHER were EVER over the counter OR dealer installed. They were a part of the "light weight" engine package created in '65 for the '66 LeMans race. ( not to be confused with a light weight Galaxie) The engine also used an aluminum center harmonic balancer , aluminum water pump , magnesium single four intake and a dry sump oiling system. My research leads me to believe that less than 100 heads were cast in '65 and they were never recast after that. When made , they used smaller "low riser" valve sizes because the steel seats limited the size of the valve. There should be hand stamped numbers on the end of the heads which could be of more help to me. Never used in Nascar as aluminum heads were not legal back then. Some did make it into drag racing after the LeMans race in '66 as the Tunnel Port 427 head was being developed for the '67 race . I owned an NOS pair back in 2000 and am very familiar with them. While rare , they are not as powerful as a modern , Edelbrock , Trick flow , etc aftermarket head. Price depends heavily on the amount of damage to the one head.
As my profile says I am a collector of this kind of stuff and have been for 50 years.
Randy

 

[BrewBoy]

More info from the guy on the other forum:

Your source is correct, GT 40 was the intended use until the tunnel port heads were sorted out. Cast in a Canadian foundary same as the tunnel port heads. Dad got handed a set back when he was drag racing. Saved weight but no performance change from the iron head of that design. He laughed as he described getting another set of heads later that came with the warning to not rub very hard on the numbers as they might fall off. Dad then asked me if I knew what the two classes of drag racers were back then. After admitting I was clueless he said, "The two classes of racers were losers and cheaters". Ford made sure some of the connected teams had a bit of an edge and I'm sure the other brands did the same tricks.

 

[GT350HR]

Cast at the "special" or prototype foundry in Detroit , not Canada. Even the infamous "Canadian Cobra jet" heads were not cast in Canada nor even machined there. The Windsor foundry was not making heads at that time .
Respectfully,
Randy

 

[CobraMcgee]

Seems like I asked in the right place. Thank you for all the great info, Randy and BrewBoy.

Here are the pictures of the damaged head, as well as the numbers stamped on the end and side.

https://ibb.co/86ZnpSK
https://ibb.co/6X7CYvZ
https://ibb.co/Dg9s6T6
https://ibb.co/5R3jht5

Someone has clearly welded it already, but I couldn't tell you who. Looks to me like any decent machine shop should be able to finish repairing them, but I haven't had the chance to take them anywhere to get checked out yet. I figured I'd find out what exactly they are and if it would even be worth paying someone to fix the one head. Now that I know, I'm going to be a little more particular with who I let work on them. I inherited these after my grandfather passed a couple of years ago, and I'm still figuring out what a bunch of the stuff is that he had in his garage/storage units. I'm pretty savvy when it comes to working on classics and being able to decipher what is what, but there are these rare exceptions where I'm left scratching my head. I know he got them from a guy whose cars he used to work on, but they sat on the shelf in the garage for as long as I can remember, and were never installed on a car since I was born. Possibly even much longer than that. I didn't see the aluminum water pump and other parts that you said came on the lightweight engine package you had mentioned, Randy, but I will certainly keep an eye out as I get the chance to go through the other boxes of parts. The rest looked like big/small block GM and Mopar parts. He had a shop in the 90's. So the parts have always been around as long as I can remember, waiting for "future projects". I really don't know if I would sell them, but I certainly don't have any kind of sentimental attachment to them. We'll see what happens.

 

[BrewBoy]

Here's the latest response from my source:

If the foundry was in Detroit I would almost bet it was Bill Coon who did them. He still makes the parts needed to build a 427 SOHC. A few years back he offered to sell me everything needed save some minor machine work for $17K.

 

[GT350HR]

Here's the latest response from my source:

If the foundry was in Detroit I would almost bet it was Bill Coon who did them. He still makes the parts needed to build a 427 SOHC. A few years back he offered to sell me everything needed save some minor machine work for $17K.

In '65 , Bill Coon was a Ford employee , not a Ford engineer capable ( then) of having heads cast. His friends called him the "dumpster diver" . To his credit he "scrounged" enough "junk" parts to put together a cammer to replace the High Riser in his '57 Thunderbird drag car. It was one of the first "private" cammer powered cars. His was running before many of the Drag Team members got one! He had nothing to do with the GT40 cylinder head project. The lead engineer IIRC was Joe Balcerowiec (sp) or Joe B as he was called.
Randy

 

[BrewBoy]

More from my guy:

And there is the Special stamp. Probably are Bill's work. If I can find his number I will ask him what his take is on these heads. They would be great on a period correct (LOL) street engine. You could have some fun jacking up some car show judges because nearly all of them would be clueless. The FOMOCO cast into the rectangle would give them fits. Noticed one other thing about them, they don't have the multiple exhaust mounting bolt holes that would allow using the horizontal bolt pattern cast iron free flowing manifolds used in Fairlanes and Comets. Verticle bolt holes mean they were intended to match full size car manifolds or the snake nest headers in a GT40.

 

[BrewBoy]

GT350HR, would you be interested in communicating with my guy? It seems like you two would have a wealth of knowledge to share.

 

[GT350HR]

GT350HR, would you be interested in communicating with my guy? It seems like you two would have a wealth of knowledge to share.

Sure let me know how you want to do it.

 

[BrewBoy]

I mentioned it, but haven't heard back just yet.