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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a 1984 351w motor that i am going to put in my 1986 Mustang Gt but i want to do some stuff to it first but need some help. I already have longtube headers, aluminum dual-plane intake, 650cfm holley 4-barrel, true timed double roller timing set. this car is really just going to be a street machine for teasing the tuners and high school kids for now. I was looking at the voodoo cams. I want something that is going to give me a good power boost and give me a really mean sounding idle. I am going with a manual transmission. Can i go with the 61003 or does it hit too high? Can stock heads (temporarily til i find a good deal) even handle the .538 lift?

Cam 1: lunati voodoo 61002

Hydraulic. Mid-level performance street cam with excellent drivability. Works well with stock type exhaust manifolds and dual plane intake with mild 4 bbl carb. This is an awesome 4X4 and performance marine cam where dry exhaust is used. Improved valve springs and roller rockers recommended.
  • Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .499/.522
  • LSA/ICL: 112/108
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1400-5800
Cam 2: lunati voodoo 61003

Hydraulic. The most awesome 268 cam ever produced! Out-powers all others! This High Performance street cam likes 2400 RPM stall, 650 cfm carb, dual plane intake and headers. Makes un-equaled power to 6200 RPM with proper valve springs. Very strong cam with great street manners.
  • Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 268/276
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 227/233
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .522/.538
  • LSA/ICL: 110/106
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1800-6200
 

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What kind of gearing do you have in the rear end?....The heads should be able to handle that much lift with the proper springs although I don't have much experience with the pedestal style heads.....Something to keep in mind if the engine is all stock is your compression will be pretty low..Probably in the mid to high 8:1 range which is not good for power...You need to select a cam that will keep your cylinder pressure up...Or you could ditch those heads for something with a little smaller chambers and more flow which would really wake that 351 up...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What kind of gearing do you have in the rear end?....The heads should be able to handle that much lift with the proper springs although I don't have much experience with the pedestal style heads.....Something to keep in mind if the engine is all stock is your compression will be pretty low..Probably in the mid to high 8:1 range which is not good for power...You need to select a cam that will keep your cylinder pressure up...Or you could ditch those heads for something with a little smaller chambers and more flow which would really wake that 351 up...
ok. im not sure what the rear end is. its just the stock rear for now. i hadnt quite got that far yet.

I would really like to upgrade to heads i just cant find any good ones in my budget right now. depending on how much they end at i am watching a set on ebay with 64cc chambers and 170cc flow. what would that put my CR around? but they say the springs can handle a .530 lift which is what made me wonder if i could go with the 61003 cam with a .538 ex lift and even then would this rpm range be too high for my build/use?

Ford 289 302 351 W 5.0 Mustang Stroker Aluminum Heads - eBay (item 230552572229 end time Nov-25-10 18:45:53 PST)
 

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I'm assuming your engine has the D8 heads which had 69cc chambers and the 302 sized 1.78/1.48 valves....That is about the worst windsor head made..Especially for a 351....The 64cc chambers should get you close to 9:1.....I have no idea who makes those heads though...I would be vary leery of the cheap ebay heads..They are usually assembled with very poor quality hardware..
Even something like a ford GT40 head off of a mustang would be an improvement over what you have...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ok. i was thinking about the gt40/gt40p heads but i figured they wouldnt be as good as what i have but i guess its not hard to move up when you start with junk, ya know. what would it take to put a set of 351c/351m/400m heads on a windsor? and would they improve it at all or should i just forget about it? i know a guy with a set of around '76 400 heads hes not using.
 

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I know it takes some machine work to the heads..IIRC I think it is to do with the water passages as I think the cleveland does not have any coolant going through the intake like a windsor...The bigger problem is the "C" type heads have canted valves so they probably won't work with your pistons either...Then you have to track down a fairly rare aftermarket intake to top it off..Probably not worth the effort with so many good inline windsor heads out there..
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have 2 sets of windsor heads, 1 on the motor and one that came off a 1974 351 and 1 thats on the motor i will try to get the #'s on them and see if they are worth anything before i pull my hair out trying to find heads. Ill try to get those this weekend and repost
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I know it takes some machine work to the heads..IIRC I think it is to do with the water passages as I think the cleveland does not have any coolant going through the intake like a windsor...The bigger problem is the "C" type heads have canted valves so they probably won't work with your pistons either...Then you have to track down a fairly rare aftermarket intake to top it off..Probably not worth the effort with so many good inline windsor heads out there..
On the topic of cleveland heads i do have a holley street dominator intake for 351c if that would cut down on the machine work. but if they wont work with my pistons i should probably just forget about that idea
 

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HFT or HR if you are not changing them to a roller and keeping the heads stock i would leave the max lift around .500 with HFT

my combo is RHS 200 64cc HFT with a comp cam FW XE268H-10
 

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According to my Tom Monroe book the 1974 heads are the same size as the much sought after 69-70 heads..They have a 60cc chamber and the bigger 1.84/1.54 valves..That would be an improvement over what you have..

The cleveland intake won't fit the windsor block with cleveland heads unfortunately..
 

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As above, if those heads match the 69-70;s then your off to a good start,
Then go to a cam makers site, like Comp;s that has a chart.
You will need to plug in your specs - heads, intake, carb, etc, trans choice, rear end ratio & intended use, like street or track,etc to get real cam spec's though.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
wow it sounds like picking a cam is alot more difficult than i thought. Ill try to get the numbers off the 74 heads and see if they are actually 74 heads. If they are what you said they are then it sounds like they would be better than the gt40's. i will try to post those numbers tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
ok so the numbers on the heads were E6TE and E6AE. what are the chances of getting two motors with 10yrs difference between them and they both have the same junk heads!!
 

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Actually the GT40's are "probably" a better head than any of the normal production heads. Especially the GT40P's-which IIRC came on explorers, but had 7/16" head bolt holes rather than 1/2" (351 uses 1/2" 302 is 7/16").

300 HP is fairly easy with GT40's...for that matter even a set of mildly cleaned up early castings. Also you can look for a set of D6OE (IIRC...have to double check that number) heads from a 351w. Bigger ports and small chambers but also small valves-so if you wanted to let a machinest get a hold of them, have them put in the 1.90/1.50 SBC valves-which fit just fine. Or go with a 1.94 intake. I ran a 1.90 because it's what I had (old titanium used sprint car stuff) at the time. They worked well. Nothing in comparison to aftermarket stuff but at the time on my budget, they did what I needed to do-run and not smoke.

For the cams-neither one is really anything to write home about but the 2nd one is probably a better choice than the first. Personally I liked Erson's camshafts but that's just me and what I've used in the past. Ran a turbo cam in a 347 for a LONG time...actually it was originally a 306" with a single turbo but I kept the cam and built an entirely new engine. That cam rocked. Slightly choppy idle (very noticeable) but would clear up from 1500 on up; got GREAT fuel mileage, easy on parts, cheap, and made excellent power for what I had done to the engine (not much other than a $600 used stroker kit). Can't remember the cam part number but it was a hydraulic roller at about 237 deg. duration (IIRC) at .050 and definitely a 114 lobe separation. The guys at Erson talked me into it because of the turbo-and keep in mind, at that time NOONE except the very rich or very stupid (....or both) had a turbocharged small block Ford that actually ran/drove on the street. Lots of folks had projects started but many never made it to a driven state...so that gives you an idea of what kind of cam choices there were back then. Especially turbocharged specific. That Erson cam was actually a turbo cam, but later was re-badged as an EFI camshaft for 5.0's...or that' what I was told anyway.
 

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I learned the hard way, third cam install, knocking on wood. First was 270 duration 512 intake 517 exhaust, it was to big. Second one 272 duration 484 lift on both sides. To much, I decided hell, I'll drop down, so third try, 250-255 duration, with 434 intake lift and a 467 exhaust. Mine is also a true 1969 with factory 4bll intake. I had a dual plane edleborck I decided this round I'm going stock intake. With the other two cams, it would float the valves so quick. damn I could not even hardly drive it with second one. If I got into it, sputtering would start, run hot. I learned my lesson on stock small block ford heads.
 
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