Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I took my truck to dealer to change plugs @ 100K mi. and they are having hell. One of the plugs they took out didn't exactly come out. The body of the plug (part you put socket on) came out, but the entire center section was stuck in the head! Does anyone know of any TSBs related to factory plugs and their removal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
I have heard that the dealer is supposed to take the plugs out while the engine is still warm, but I did some cold that I sprayed PB Blaster in the hole and let set for ~30min. If they still have problems they may have to work the plugs back and forth and re-soak the threads with PB. Just make sure they put anti-seize on the new plugs to help prevent this in the future, Ford must have overlooked this step.

100K on an '05? WOW! I have seen to plugs separate from the metal thread sleeve, to the point you can rotate the porcelin around in the sleeve.

Good Luck with the bill,

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Actually, about 3K miles a month average. Got the truck in late '03, ran out of my extended warranty of 4 years/100K miles before 3 years of paying on this 5 year note. Great planning on my part, eh?. Before the 100K hit I inquired about extending coverage beyond that and they just laughed. So I guess the hip pocket national bank is going to be my extended warranty for the next foreseeable future.

When I went to get the truck, they had the 6/15 TSB about pulling plugs. You were right about some of the procedure. Supposed to start removal process when motor was warm to the touch, but only turning the plug initially 1/8th, then shooting PB at it to soak the inner portion of the plug and letting sit for while before attempting to fully remove. Can you believe this $#!+...? Think about how many F-150s there are out there and you have to change plugs @ 100K and there is this hellish nightmare for access and service time eater waiting on you.

Just so you'll know, it's not the threads that are the problem. Its the fact that they only "crimped" on a threaded shell-sleeve around the body of the plug plus the fact that the body itself seizes inside or to the head that is major problem.

Gee Whiz, you want to get something simple like changing the plugs, well drop it off and call us tommorrow. I bet ole Henry is turning over in his grave. This kind of thinking may be why Ford is in a bind. They took a simple task and made a disaster out of it!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 63SportsCoupe on 9/21/06 11:24am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
Ahhhhhh, another plus for old cast iron heads, none of this crap to deal with.
Newer heads made of aluminum just strip the threads out or seize to the plug. I know the older 4.6 and 5.4 engines were really bad about blowing the plugs out if the plugs were improperly torqued.
Whenever I do plugs I always put anti-seize on the threads, it isn't going to make much of a difference going in, but when they need changing... they are less likely to do this crap.
I wish Ford would get their stuff together and put anti seize on the threads from the factory, that sure would make it easier for the technicians to do their job.
Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
its not the threads,its tha lower cap that gets all carboned up,there is a rotunda tool to get a tap into the cap left in the heads,our driveability guys seem to braek the tap into the head sometimes also.went from one extreme to another,plugs were blowing out,know we cant get em out,id love to get into a little room with the engineer who designed this set up and kick him right square in the"NARDS".the hitts just keep on rollin,from what its lookin like its only going to get worse,i have 2 paid off 7.3l super dutys,i wont buy another ford,except for the mustang,wife has a 07 gt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,520 Posts
Modular motors vs. Push rod SBF

I know...on paper they are a better engine. I know, that based on HP/cu, they are more power full engine. I know...that quaility, fuel economy - they are a better engine.

I know that as far as Joe Public, they are a royal PITA. Now I know the factory Mechanics aren't much better at wrenching on them as one would hope.

People used to laugh when it was recommended that you drop the sub frame to pull the engine on Pantera's back in the 70's. Who's
, now that the same crap is hapening to ... trucks?

Love Fords, hate the new vehicles once out of warranty. Is it just me - or are there more idiots vs good mechanics today? Even at the dealers....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
oh.......we are very well trained factory techs,we i dont give a rats.... how hard a veh is to work on as long as i get a fair pay,thats where the problom lies,ford doesn't want to pay for ....t under warranty,and when the veh falls out of warr the cust thinks your gouging them,wait till your cvt trans in your 500 falls apart,lats time we did heads on a 6.uhoh the bill was about 10 grand,yes there are certified techs on paper,but some of them i wouldn't let touch my mower much less my veh.dealer ship tech are there for one reason only,to take care of warranty repairs(in fomoco's)eyes,if we can sell parts and labor it helps the dealer not ford realy,ford only wants to SELL cars and trucks,sorry to steal this thread
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,233 Posts
It's all planned obsolecence........ If they would be easy to fix and run forever who would ever buy a new one?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
Hey torino501, have you ever worked at a dealership? Do you know how little Ford pays for warranty repairs? Ford pays a little over half of the time it takes to do the job, leaving the tech. S.O.L. Does your 6.0 run? Do you know what it takes to do the head gaskets on a 6.0? Why don't you take a gander next time you look under the hood. It is nothing like head gaskets on a 5.0. The whole top of the engine has to come off on a 6.0, intake, wiring harness, EGR cooler, turbo, coolant, rocker bringes and caps, exhaust, fan, radiator, intercooler, core support, grille, ETC.; and the heads alone weigh probably a hundred or so pounds and are at a terrible angle so it is necessary to use an engine hoist to get the heads off. Oh, then there's cleanup to get all the crud off the heads, BY HAND, Ford recommends only a scraper to get the crud off to prevent gouging the head. Actually I think 10 grand is about right for that job, look at how many hours is involved, then the parts prices, IT'S NOT CHEAP. Why don't you give the dealer a chance, there are a lot of smart people working there. You wouldn't have a problem with the dealer if you didn't just pay 10 grand. Oh yeah, the tech. sees very little of that money. Trust me I've done a few, and the pay, even under customer pay, the tech. still looses their... on this job.
To all others talking down to the dealerships, it's not the dealer's fault Ford has no many hair-brained ideas, they just get stuck with fixing them, give the technicians a break.
Chris.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
uhm...chris, im a 12 yr veteran at the ford dealership that im currently employed.(as of this post anyways)i think you took my post out of context,the point im trying to make is,in my own opinion,ford is not in the REPAIR business,thier in the car selling bis,ford doesent give a crap about my back,knees,shoulders,elbows,ect,it all comes at a price,is the consumer going to be willing to pay $1500 just to replaced the plugs in a 3v 5.4 because their plugs cant come out like normal,im going to have to pass the added labor down to the cust,heads/gaskets/egr coolers/inj ect.same thing ill have to pass the labor down to the cust,how long will cust put up with that,either they fix it or trade it in and roll over some negative equity into their new dodge or chevy,cust dont relize that the auto industries have a drastic power train up grade about every 5-8 yrs and usually not in the favor of the tech,i used to love coming to work,used to be fun,as long as we make a fair wage,now ... i dont know.pissed off customers,pissed off techs,i realy dont know were this industry's going.im tired of working so hard for so little pay.look at it as a tech you got about 20-25 grand in tools and persinal diag eqiupment,always haveing to get recertified to work on them,veh are getting harder to work on,for so little pay,FORD has created this big ball of crap,and i dont see an end in sight,oh chris,try pulling the cabs on the superduty's to do the heads,its a lot easier on your back.later bro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,520 Posts
No one disputes the point that either of you have made. My point has to do with the guy paying for the service. Whether Ford or the Dealer or warranty treats you right...If the Vehicle owner is screwed by a bad repair which is based either on cost-based engineering, instead of easy repairablity or because the technician is in a hurry doesn't really matter.

Money is tight for everyone today, making it or spending it.

I just don't see it as fair that owners have to take it in the shorts when all they wanted to do was get good service in exchange for hard earned money.

For all those good tech's out there, my hat is off to you. But think of it this way; no one sends out a news announcement when the Sun comes up each morning, thats expected. But when there is an eclipse, thats worth talking about. Same thing for service. People go to the dealer because they expect good service, most of us don't mind paying premium prices for dealer service, because we have been taught to expect only the best trained will work on our car or truck. Its bad news when thats not what happens. Thats not the way its supposed to be.

Telling me all the problems that technicians have - makes me think I should expect bad service, not complain - just accept it as normal? You send a car in for a tune-up, expecting to pay $100 - $200 or so and get your car back that evening. But when you next hear from the service writer - you are on the hook for $2,000? Something is wrong with that picture.

I think ist only fair to expect dinner and a goodnight kiss ... if you'er gonna get s*&^%wed like that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beoweolf on 11/30/06 4:56am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
i agree with all your points beo,i just wish ford could engineer a product that when it comes time for maint or repairs,it doesent wind up costing all of us(techs and customers) a kidney or liver,its beyond me what the over paid engineers were thinking when they design this stuff, at least make it a little easier to work on,or when you do it doesnt turn into a big pile of ...p!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
There's no way in hades you could get handed a $2 grand bill if they quoted you 1-200 dollars. On another point, WHERE or on WHAT could you get/have a tuneup performed (other than throwing plugs in an old escort or something and expect to pay only 1-200 dollars?

Been turning wrenches for ford for over 30 years. Seen the good, the bad and the ugly. MOSTLY bad and ugly. While I agree wholeheartedly that ford has been making coming to work less and less tolerable,.........well, no argument there, whatsoever.
They will be shortly running out of good techs. The ones that are good know what their net worth is, and are leaving in flocks. It's a matter of how old you are, where you are in lifes standings, and where you can find other work that pays as well (or better), and less BS. Heavy on the less BS/.politics.

Back to the original reason I posted....... There is NO way that any further work that YOU don't agree to (either in signing a pre approval, OR by phone conversation, OR face to face), can be made to pay for any work that's done above and beyond your original price quote.

Wish there was. So many times customers give their phone numbers and NEVER are by a phone the rest of the day, so when a tech does find something that REALLY requires attention, or finds more crap that's wrong on their car, the service writers can't get a hold of the customer, so the car either gets pushed outside, or sits inside (gawd forbid), wasting valuable space/time in the dealership.
Sorry, went off on a rant.

Bottom line, if you're not happy with the work at one dealership, give another one a try. You shouldn't have to, but sometimes you do.
You wouldn't believe the amount of OTHER dealerships vehicles we work on, on a daily basis. It drives US nuts, PLUS it drives up our dealerships warranty numbers just because of this. But you ask the customers why they bring it to you and yes, they got a 'better deal' on the original purchase of the vehicle, but they'd had a bad experience in their service department, so they bring it somewhere they trust.
I guess it sucks being good..........................just wish ford understood that.............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
I work at a Ford dealer, too; and I know that the labor charges are "rollover" with the head gaskets, but it is still all involved and is still a royal P.I.T.A. I don't know where you work, but if you can't trust your colleagues to "work on your mower" you need to get out. Where I work, everybody is great at what they do and I would trust them with anything. Ford is happy with making money, and screwing the Techs. and customers. Ford wonders why people don't buy their cars, they charge too darn much to buy and upkeep them, they put "experimental" parts in their vehicles (the 6.0, a great example; also the 3v engines with the powdered metal rods and new style plugs that break off in the head) yet Ford expects the customer to pay for Ford's mistakes after the warranty ends. Oh yeah, Ford used Bosch injectors since the '80's and switched to another brand, oh now they stick open and may cause the engine to hydro-lock, oops! (that's making ford look even better right there!)
Yeah I agree, cars are getting harder to work on, and Ford doesn't care who has to work on them, yeah let's make it so the tech has to pull the cab to change the head gaskets that make the customer pay out the ... to fix something that is Ford's mistake in the first place.
I sure hope the new 6.4L diesel is better, I'm betting it won't be (I'll let Ford prove me wrong on that) the word is: Ford can't keep the bottom ends together on the 6.4L and is why they pushed back production.
I agree with torino501 though, when I first started at Ford it was fun, now having to buy tools, take classes to become certified, renew your certification, and still get the same wage, that is bull.
Ford really needs to let technicians design and build cars, instead of engineers and designers; and that way the cars would be easier to work on. But no, let's make it so Joe Q. Public can't work on his/her own vehicle and have the need to take it to the dealer because the person doesn't have the right tools to do a simple job.
Why change to experimental crap like the 3v, 6.0L, VGT turbos, etc.? What was wrong with the 7.3L, Ford could have made it pass emissions, but didn't. What was wrong with the 4.6L 2v and 4v, and for that matter the 5.0L? Oh, were going back to where the public no longer is able to do repairs of their own.
It's good to know there's another technician on the board, and thanks for the tip on pulling the cab. I've heard it was not worth it though, but everybody has their own opinion on either way.
I think cars in general are getting more and more "disposable", how many people no you know who keep cars over 10 yrs., over 5 yrs?
Chris.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
391 Posts
drag..i was just using the 200-300 plug changes as an example,BUT if i pull the plugs on a truck out of 3/36 or5/100 and the plug cap stays in there or i pull the threads out of the heads cause sombody (ford or who ever) didnt put antisieze on the threads,i stop right there. i usually start with the hardest cyl,but anyway i stop,call the cust tell them where were at,what went wrong and what can go even further wrong as far as replacing some serious parts/labor,they can go ahead with the repair or pull it out on a hook.but i let them know up front.and most of the time with the crap thats on the road you have to over repair just to cover your ass.the 6.0 is a whole nother story,montego yeah its cool to see other gear heads/techs that realy have the PASSION of working on cars or anything mechanical,but like i said im working harder now than i was 3-5 yrs ago and making about the same pay,im a certified diesel tech at a ford dealer in houston,all i do is diesel,drivability and heavy line,it chaps my ass to see the trim,front end,gas drivability guys get there 50-60 hrs aweek finding evap leaks,replaceing spark plugs,o2 sensors,and what ever else they do, while im pulling cabs to do heads and have to be certified to do that,just kills me.but just knowing i Can do thier job and they dont want mine is all good for me.i do love working on my 5.0L and 501/460.i realy dont know were this thread is going.later
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top