Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im getting the 9inch done on my galaxie an im looking for the cheapest price on a powertrax no-slip,or a detroit locker or maybe even a tru-trac the cheapest ive found thus far is $385 anybody out there that can even come close to that??also ill be needing good 31 spline axles,is summit the cheapest when it comes to those?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
I have had very good luck with Sutton Engineering. they are located at 220 South 7th Avenue, La Puente, CA, 91746
I have been using the 9" that they built for my 1967 Mustang for 10 years, without a glitch! # (626) 961-9369, also 626-961-9360.

I like them so much that I wrote them into my web page, they helped me get a 9" into a fox mustang keeping the stock drum brakes and also keeping the quad shocks

check it out, even got maps on my site here:

http://www.thatmetalbox.com/9inchfoxswap/index.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
I have been looking for a posi third member myself.last weekend i went to the ford swap meet in columbus ohio,there were alot of them there but everone i saw was very over priced.( you would have thought they were made out of gold) There is a dealer on Ebay that is selling rebuilt posi 3rd members in several different ratios, 28 or 31 spline from $450 to $500 including shipping.I emailed them and they say that they use all new bearings and seals. Im going to buy one this week from them. They have the best price i have found yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yeah but im looking for a locking differential,i believe the ones on ebay arent locking. For being such a common rearend,the parts sure are expensive (except the gears) for this thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
Here's another source from Jacksonville , FL.

www.mustangmasters.com Freddy and crew are great to deal with...and they ship quickly too.

E-mail them..or call them at 904-724-3927
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
I realized you were talking about a locker after i summitted my post sorry. Any ways a guy had a 3rd member set up with a used detriot locker and 4:11 gears at the columbus swap meet and he had $700.00 on it I offered him $500.00 and he said "noway the locker is worth that".
I think sumitt has a Power trax mini locker for around $279.00 and detriot ez lockers for $215.00 but i dont know how strong they are.

_________________
It aint braggin if you back it up!!!!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 347LX on 4/10/06 1:56am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
If somebody wants to sell you a 'posi' for a ford, dont buy from them as they either dont know what they are talking about or they are trying to scam you!!

Ford has a clutch-type limited slip diff called "Traction-Loc"

::taken from http://www.4x4cyberstore.com/website/aboutaxles.html ::

"Limited slip is the generic term for any traction device that works via friction. Positraction is a marketing term GM used from the 50's to the 70's. Similar to cola versus Coca-Cola®. This friction can be developed with clutches (steel, fiber or carbon), gears or cones."

I have a detroit locker in the 9" I had made up for my 67 fastback. I have had it for since 1996 and no problems, I have changed the rear axle fluid once. It clicks and clankes and you have to let off the gas on curves on the freeway or you will break loose... Not for your daily-driver to work car
_________________
my web server: http://www.thatmetalbox.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 4/12/06 12:14am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,892 Posts
67fastback, thanks for bringing up Sutton Engineering. Have heard good about them but had forgotten to check them out.

Finally got around to ordering a 9" again and found your reply here. Called them based on your reply and the fact that they are somewhat local to me. Ed was very knowledgeable and knew exactly what I wanted/needed. The real kicker is that the fellow I talked with at Currie couldn't come within several hundred of Ed's price on essentially identicle rears!!! I happily ordered the 9 from Sutton.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Sweet! I am glad I was able to connect you! I really am happy with Sutton's performance as a company and would love to be able to refer people to them!!!

I also had a bad experiance with Currie, and not just the price... They said that swapping a 9" into a fox-body MANDATED changing the rear brakes. They said keeping the stock drum brakes COULD NOT BE DONE, well thanks to Sutton I not only retained my stock brakes and all hardware, I also am using the quad shocks on my 9"

nice.

_________________
my web server: Http://www.thatmetalbox.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 4/12/06 3:48am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
583 Posts
On 2006-04-11 08:57, 67fastback wrote:
If somebody wants to sell you a 'posi' for a ford, dont buy from them as they either dont know what they are talking about or they are trying to scam you!!

Ford has a clutch-type limited slip diff called "Traction-Loc"

::taken from http://www.4x4cyberstore.com/website/aboutaxles.html ::

"Limited slip is the generic term for any traction device that works via friction. Positraction is a marketing term GM used from the 50's to the 70's. Similar to cola versus Coca-Cola®. This friction can be developed with clutches (steel, fiber or carbon), gears or cones."

I have a detroit locker in the 9" I had made up for my 67 fastback. I have had it for since 1996 and no problems, I have changed the rear axle fluid once. It clicks and clankes and you have to let off the gas on curves on the freeway or you will break loose... Not for your daily-driver to work car
_________________
my web server: http://www.thatmetalbox.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 4/12/06 12:14am ]</font>
Realy,gee maybe "posi" is a generic term aswell.
_________________
It aint braggin if you back it up!!!!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 347LX on 4/12/06 8:14am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 347LX on 4/13/06 4:51am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
No, it is a GM trademark for a specific GM type part. You could call a "Fox body" car a "F body" it sounds close but sure is not accurate. You could look at a mixed-brand lot of cars, meaning to point out a Ford, and say "the car" or worse "the honda". It isnt proper or true. I hope you don't still want a "posi 3rd member..." As far as I know, posi's wern't even used on removable-carrier style rear axles... but please


correct me if Im wrong.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,904 Posts
The first "Positraction" rears were removable type carriers used in mid to late '50's Chevys. The term "posi" is a generic term describing a limit slip rear end. BFD if it's a Ford or whatever.
On another note Sutton narrowed the 9 inch housing and cut and resplined the axles for my Morris almost 10 years ago. No problems yet and the price was right.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Thanks, didnt know that they were around that long, or of that type.

Must disagree with your definitions though. If I use your definitions then "traction lok" is a type of POSITRACTION, when actually both are a type of "limited slip"

Its as if you are saying that you could refer to any personal computer as "IBM": 'my Compaq is an IBM' or 'my Fry's special is an IBM' is the same as saying 'my ford traction lok is a POSITRACTION'

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 4/14/06 2:36am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Trying to visualize it in a flow:

A)Automobiles
--1)rear axle
---a)diff type
----1.open
----2.locked (solid)
-------[a]spool
-------minispool
----3.limited slip
-------[a]traction lok
-------positraction

So, would you say that the above catagorization is inncorrect?

Would it be more correct to say: ...

----3.positraction
-------[a]traction lok
-------limited slip

?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 4/14/06 2:38am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,892 Posts
On 2006-04-12 22:41, Just Jim wrote:
On another note Sutton narrowed the 9 inch housing and cut and resplined the axles for my Morris almost 10 years ago. No problems yet and the price was right.
Gald to hear that Jim. Yeah, the price was right. Currie bid me at over $700 more!!! Called back and asked what they could get me into for less coin. They said nothing that was strong enough. I know Currie makes excellent rearends. Just seems like their prices have gone way up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
I'm interested in knowing more about the Detroit TrueTrac as well, so if any of you guys get some info from the pros about it please share. I like the fact that it's basically a street-friendly (non-locker) limited slip, that you don't ever have to worry the clutches wearing out. The only part I have to question is how durable it is to occasional drag-racing duty behind a small block and maybe slicks.

67fastback: Many products on the marketplace have gotten their name from an original brand/product line, that over time became hearsay and the common way to refer to a particular device. Ever asked for a "Kleenex" to blow your nose? Did they tell you "sorry, we don't buy Kleenex, but here's some facial tissue". In the south it's common to call ANY carbonated drink that comes out of a can a "Coke"... whether it's made by Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc... are you going to tell those some odd million people that they are calling it by the incorrect name? There's hundreds of examples of this dynamic part of language.

Language is not just what you can look up in the dictionary... it's the words that are commonly used in a society and the meanings behind those words. Maybe back in the 60s/70s when there wasn't really an aftermarket for this stuff, it would have been wrong to refer to anything in a Ford as a "Posi", but today do a google search for Posi, or just look through a Summitt catalog (or any other parts catalog for that matter) and the term Posi has become interchangeable with "limited slip" (probably because it is shorter and rolls off the tongue easier). Basically what it comes down to is, the majority population dictates language, not the dictionary... the dictionary just tries to keep up with language changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,904 Posts
Hold on while I get a coke from the fridgedair with visegrips as a handle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
Jim, just don't Do some coke as your vice grips you...
=================================
(this is taken from a truck site, so keep that in mind)

Truetrac (TT)
Based on the worm gear principal and works like clutch type limited slip. Does not wear out, not recommended for tall tires over 33".

Detroit Truetracs are similar in design to the Gleason Torsen®, only the Truetracs hold up well with reasonably tall tires. They use worm wheel gears that work on the same principle as a worm gear. When the unit is loaded, the worm wheels are forced away from each other and against the case. They develop locking torque by the light friction between the worm wheels and the case. This light friction is multiplied by the ratio of the worm wheel which depends on the size of the worm wheel relative to the size of the side gear. The manufacturer can change the amount of torque biasing or lockup by simply changing the diameter of the gears, or the pitch and spiral of the teeth. A larger difference in the size for the worm wheels and side gears (smaller worm wheels and larger side gears) will increase the lockup force. Increasing the pitch and spiral of the teeth will also increase the lockup forces. Like everything, there is a limit as to how much lockup force is reasonable. Making the unit too "aggressive" will cause tire scrub during everyday driving and will cause the unit to wear out too quickly. All of the feedback that I have received from customers indicates that the unit works very well for mud and snow, while going unnoticed during every day driving. When used in situations like rocky trails where one wheel gets off the ground, the unit will not lock up 100%. Light application of the brakes will help the differential engage more transferring power to the tire that is still on the ground. For extreme situations where the vehicle will have one wheel in the air often a locking differential provides better power transfer to the wheel on the ground.

Detroit Truetracs are designed for medium duty 2WD and 4WD applications. They work well in the front and rear, and are so smooth that there is little or no hint of resistance in the steering wheel when used in front drive steering axles. Like the Gleason Torsen®, the Detroit Truetrac does not bang or clunk, has no clutch chatter, does not wear out like clutch type positractions/limited slip, does not need limited slip additive, and needs no preload or clearance adjustments.

Almost sounds too good to be true doesn't it? The only drawbacks to the Truetracs are their inability to provide lockup 100% like a locking differential can. Although Gleason no longer makes the Torsen® differential, the Detroit Truetrac is a proven design that is available for many popular applications. (aftermarket) 1 yr warranty

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 4/14/06 7:38am ]</font>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
I understand what you are saying Motorhead. Unfortunately language can be a sticky quagmire, a slippery slope: when somebody says ‘yo spec out my rims…’ you can’t know if they are talking about 1)their wheel-tire combo, 2)the wheel itself 3)the RIM of the wheel 4)a removable wheel cover 5)the rim of their a##hole. (and do they really want you to provide specifications on whatever it is they are talking about) I guess you have to look at what they are currently pointing at to know for sure.

You are correct that language changes. For example I am a programmer and use bits of the English language to represent things. I am using a relative new “language”: C#. The usage is very precise and there is no chance of “interpretation” of definitions because the terms are agreed upon and used accordingly. It is not prose. My machinist friend is the same way, precise and understandable in words and actions. My driveline specialist is the one who really gets offended when a customer: comes in with say a 5.0 Ford Mustang and says: “how much for posi gears?” Well you can’t just tell them… First you have to interpret what you think they want, then ask them questions until you get close… My machinist friend really respects people who know what they are talking about and clearly communicate it, esp. when they are giving advise. Unfortunately people who know they don’t know what they are talking about can be afraid to look stupid and will just slog ahead… I hope that in X years all the people of the Earth will not be talking to their loved ones across the dinner table: “bizzle me dat snjizzle drizzle” “ok fool do you want extrazzlle smizzle drizzle?”

An example from 80’s animation: “go smurf yourself” & “get me a smurf of water” What am I to do to myself?

Hey that above text is crazy, I’m crazy I know I just wish people could use the appropriate term when such a term exists. It’s frustrating when you must ask questions of a persons “simple” statement SIMPLY to glean their meaning – because it wasn’t apparent with the language they had used. Sadly many people just do not have a verbose vocabulary, and/or the capabilities to use it - and must resort to grunting and pointing!

I just don’t anything to do with it if/when consensus reality decide that the term “small block” is reserved for Chevrolet only, or hemi means a Chrysler product only… because its common talk. I personally have heard people use these terms in such a way countless times.

Lightheartedly,

67fastback

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 67fastback on 4/14/06 7:38am ]</font>
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,010 Posts
I'm old enough that my first on-the-highway car was a '51 flathead shoebox ' that I paid $60.00 for and I cannot remember ever hearing an axle that could engaged both wheels to pull when needed ever called anything but a posi or positraction on any vehicle throughout the sixties and seventies. Even people at the dealerships referred to cars as having positraction. I'm not saying it is the correct usage but, only that it's a matter of semantics. As said above "generic terms" and some even call them rearends for crying out loud. How can that be? The rearend should be called the bumper. I don't believe that automotive terminology can fit in such a sterile environment. Maypops was a term used to describe badly worn tires and it didn't matter if they were General, Goodyear, Firestone...... Got any petro, or gas ? or we could have ask, Do you have any Esso, or Texaco, or Sunoco or Gulf...................
"yea man its a 406 with a 4 on the floor and she's also got a positraction rearend". Those were the days my friend. I think I've gone crazy.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top