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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Cleveland that i am going to be building. I have no plans to convert it, but i think it would be nice. How much would it cost, is there a kit? I have seen articles on it, but i didnt know how easy it was.

What are the ups and downs to this conversion? Powergains power loss??? obviously a lot less messing with the carb.

I dont plan on doing this in the near feature, but i think it would be something that would be neat.
 

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There's a really neat writeup on the main page about converting a cleveland to efi. However here in the states its much easier. MegaSquirt, and MassFloEfi are just a few options for kits, and the two least expensive from what i've seen.

Hope this helps,
Cris
 

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Stock EEC IV is the least expensive. Just need a harness, injectors, Puter, pump, fuel rail/regulator, TB elbow adaptor, intake with injector bungs welded in and a slightly modded 7.5L Dist.
 

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I havent seen any big gains by going to EFI over a properly tuned carb setup. They do claim to increase low end torque though. Count on several thousand dollars to convert to an EFI setup. In my opinion it is much better to stay with a carb.
 

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Carbs are great...BUT:

where EFI really shines is tuneability and driveability. You can get the same maybe better fuel mileage with a carb, but with EFI you can run it leaner (cleaner) and still maintain excellent manners. With a carb, once you get to around 15:1 A/F at cruise speeds, sometimes you will run into a slight surge. Because EFI controllers (the ECU, computer, whatever you call it) operates at such a high speed compared to a regular carb'd motor's ignition system, it is capable of monitoring ignition misses, changes in A/F according to the O2 sensor(s), and adjust fuel injector pulse width....many hundreds of times per second, which usually makes for great street manners (again, compared to a properly tuned carb). Then, if you need to change the fuel or ignition map, you don't even have to get your hands dirty. Just a few pecks on a keyboard of a laptop and you've changed the engine's whole attitude.

I did a Megasquirt on a 2.3 Turbo in an SVO a while back. MS has advantages, and most importantly for me was price.....and it's tuneability, but I sold the car before I ever got it fully tuned. I never got the cold start enrichment set up to where it was as smooth as the factory EEC was, and from what I've read, it's tough to duplicate the Ford's cold start system. I sold it with the factory EEC and VAM system installed...worked fine, but had it's limitations. About 300 HP is the limit for a stock 2.3 with 35 lb injectors and around 20 PSI boost. the MS system I had on it had 52 lb injectors and I was playing with around 24 psi. Don't know how much HP, but man it was a ride---for an old pinto motor. Now, I guess you "could" use a 5.0 EEC system and use an old EFI 7.5 distributor...but you still have to get a intake manifold modified to accept rails & injectors. If it were me, I'd make my own manifold....2 separate throttle bodies on 2 separate manifolds, one for each bank. Then use the Ford EEC-IV 5.0 factory MAF system. Should be fairly easy since the cleveland uses a dry manifold (no water passages).

That said, if you're considering EFI, be sure to consider the costs and downtime. Costs can get pretty high depending on what system you use. I had about $550 in my Megasquirt and I bought the controller pre-assembled. You can get them unassembled and set it up how you like for a little less money. The carb is the simple, safe, and tried-and-true way out, but it a little less sophisticated...but also has it's disadvantages. For mileage concerns, a carb and ignition system can be tuned to get great mileage....and so can EFI systems, but I'm still pretty green with EFI to be able to match the kind of gains I saw with an old Edelbrock 1405 on my old '84 Mustang GT. With a mild built 302, at one time it was getting over 35 mpg---fill the tank with 10 gallons and drive 350 miles, fill with another 10 gallons. I never got better than 28 out of the SVO, but then again...I never kept the boost gauge on the vacuum side of zero either.

So, in a nutshell....pick your poison. both have their advantages & disadvantages.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I wouldnt know anything about tuning the EFI, but I know very little about carbs. I think learning the carb tuning would be much easier. I think i will probably just stick with that.

Thanks for the responses tho.
 

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I've been looking towards efi for my cleveland as well, the second thing about it though is EFI seems worthless to me if you can't control the ignition, i.e. just a distributor isn't good enough. To get the most out of it you would want to have the ability to adjust timing by computer control also, then I think you could easily surpass a well tuned carb system and get much better driveabiliy and see much better mpg.
 

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Would he be able to use the 351W EFI dizzy with a gear swap? Or would the gear its self pose a problem with the way it installs? The EFI's are pressed on are'nt they?

_________________

:edit: I just checked and the 351W EFI dizzy uses a roll pin too. The shank is different though IIRC?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wildosvt01 on 3/18/06 8:09pm ]</font>
 

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A 7.5 dist is easier to use than the 5.8 since the 7.5 uses the same gear/oil pump driveshaft as the C and the body is the same size.
 

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I would think that the best thing avout going to efi would be the easier install of knock sensor control, vs points/carb.
 

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Tough job! I think the lack of space precludes a 5.0 efi manifold. Carfburated, an sdelbrock torker won't fit under the stock hood. I believe that the torker is an inch taller than the performer, which barely fits. The hplley style throttle body should save that inch from the 4150, making for less shoehorning. For many years, ford has had a magnetic pick-up to replace the points, which may be able to trigger the ECU. A better bet would be an adapter for an optical pick-up for both the injectors AND the ignition timing , combined with the knock sensor capability of the ecu to retard igntion at the harmless pre-ping level. I've been trying to justify spending the 2500+ probable cost for any reasonable conversion. It's unfortunate that HEI won't fit on the cleveland (physically in a pantera), and I've been hearing that creating a TFI distributor involves reshafting a windsor dist with a 460 shaft. I also read another artical that the mag pick-up can be used as a trigger. The problem is that I am stuck at the mercy of a shop that has never done anything like this either. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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On 2006-03-18 17:32, 1 Bad 88 GT wrote:
A 7.5 dist is easier to use than the 5.8 since the 7.5 uses the same gear/oil pump driveshaft as the C and the body is the same size.
A 7.5/460 dist is simply a drop in for a EFI 351C using EEC IV. The 351W uses an external dist mounted TFI module just like the 5.0, while the 7.5 uses a remote mounted TFI module. Basically all you need to do is drill a hole in the side of the 7.5 dist to run the wires from the dist to the TFI module.

460 on the right, 5.0 on the left.


This is what the hole needs to look like in the 460 dist when your done.
 

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On 2006-03-28 20:20, RichH wrote:
and I've been hearing that creating a TFI distributor involves reshafting a windsor dist with a 460 shaft.
Check out Mallory, I believe, they teamed up with MassFlo EFI and created a TFI dizzy for the 335/385 engines which will allow for easier EFI conversions.
 
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