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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi
I'm a brand-new member to the forum, I have a black/black 63.5 4-spd car with ps & pb (drum).

I have a couple of questions that members may be able to answer based on some things I've read in previous posts.My brake pedal appears to be very close to the floor for a brake pedal - I thought it would be approx. the same height as the clutch, but it's about the same or slightly lower than the gas pedal - is this normal? It won't come up any higher... I'm thinking that the best way to handle this may be to put in a longer rod from the pedal to the back of the booster? The operation is fine, there is very little movement in the pedal when used and the brakes work fine, it's just low...

Secondly (and this is probably familiar to some of you) the seat height is higher than I'd like. I'm quite tall (6' 3") and the seat is all the way back, but my head is pressed firmly into the headliner - is this normal for a 63.5 car? The car was originally a XL so don't believe that the seat risers have been changed (from bench to bucket) but is there a way to lower the height of the seats?
- Cut the seat brackets?
- Cut the seat risers?
- Remove some springs from within the seats?
- Something else?
Thanks in advance
Jeff
 

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You say your car WAS originally an XL - does it now have a bench seat in it? Do you think your car is as original or has some previous owner reconfigured it? I know mine has been modified, but I think things are pretty close to factory specs. Here are some measurements off of my car for you to compare. Brake pedal top face to floor carpet distance - approx 5.75 inches. Distance between brake pedal and clutch pedal top faces approx 2 inches. (My car has an aftermarket power 4 wheel disc brake system.) Horizontal seating surface (XL bucket seat) distance to floor - approx 8 inches. Distance from top of my head to headliner approx 4.5 inches. I'm not nearly as tall as you (5' 11") but tallness can be affected by torso length vs leg length so this last figure may be meaningless. Do you think your power brake system is OEM or aftermarket? It sounds to me like your pedal is too low, but if it is firm and you have sufficient room between it and the floor, than it's a matter of appearance. Good luck!
 

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brake shoes need to be adjusted closer to drums...
that will bring pedal height back to normal....


seat height is a bit of a problem..

'm 6'1 and top of my head is touching headliner when i move certain ways..
floorpan is a little high in seat area


custom brackets for your seat will be the solution
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok - thanks for the responses!!
Car is an XL now and always been as far as I know.
Brakes are original, can’t see how adjusting them would raise the pedal up - they bite immediately anyway.
I’ll check the pedal height - and the seat height measurement: was that the front of the seat, the side or the back?
Could you please measure the distance from the back of the lower cushion and the headlining for me? Where the cushion and the seat back meet.
Thanks in advance.
 

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The 8 inches I quoted you was from the carpet to the front of the bucket seating surface. The seats were rebuilt as part of a restoration. The distance from the back of the seat (right at the seatback) to the headliner (also replaced in restoration) is approx 38 inches. Don't forget that the buckets have a manual seatback rake adjustment on each side of the seatback at the rear which could get your headroom another inch possibly. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Terrific measurements - I'll check on these today.
I have adjusted the seat back as far down as possible so there's no more 'rake' left in the seat back.
I've got to pull the seats out to repair the floors so maybe I can post some photos of the seat rails - they may have been replaced at some stage?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Also - here are photos of the brake master/booster setup and the pedal heights...

I cannot raise the pedal AT ALL - it moves a small amount when pressure is applied DOWNWARDS to activate the brakes, but will not raise at all if I try to lift it, and I don't think it comes anywhere near a height-stop, but I'll continue to check.

Here's a photo of the pedal and the master cylinder:

http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/medium/051-DSCF7586.JPG
http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/medium/pedal_heights.JPG
 

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Brakes are original, can’t see how adjusting them would raise the pedal up - they bite immediately anyway.
I’ll check the pedal height
just to clarify... does pedal sit low when foot is off it..
or do you have excessive pedal travel, like almost bottoming out before brakes grab/bite when stepping on it...


if long travel, brake shoe adjustment will correct that


if pedal sits to low from get go...
most likely booster was replaced at some point or aftermarket booster..
i believe something changed and leads me to think push rod from pedal to booster is the wrong length....


a couple picture's would help...


clutch and brake pedal should be resting in about same height ..
 

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Hi there,

if pedal sits to low from get go...
most likely booster was replaced at some point or aftermarket booster..
i believe something changed and leads me to think push rod from pedal to booster is the wrong length...

My thoughts too.

Mel
 

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Also - here are photos of the brake master/booster setup and the pedal heights...

I cannot raise the pedal AT ALL - it moves a small amount when pressure is applied DOWNWARDS to activate the brakes, but will not raise at all if I try to lift it, and I don't think it comes anywhere near a height-stop, but I'll continue to check.

Here's a photo of the pedal and the master cylinder:

http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/medium/051-DSCF7586.JPG
http://www.mustangphotos.com/photopost/data/500/medium/pedal_heights.JPG
take look at booster pedestal bracket
curved lever inside connecting booster and pedal pushrod together
maybe the curved lever was installed wrong direction(curve facing towards booster)??


here's a pic of a aftermarket pedestal bracket (see red arrow)



 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Raggaren
Great photo - not sure what I'm looking at there. I'm currently trying to replace the upper control arm pivot shaft and the upper balljoint - and that is SO MUCH FUN!


I'll report back over the next few days with some more info. The bracket you show the photo of, that's between the booster and the firewall if I understand it correctly? I'll see if I can get a picture of two.


Thanks for the info and responses guys.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well - it's late and it's cold - so I went and had a look tonight.


Seat height at front is 10 inches from the carpet to the highest point on the front of the seat cushion, about 1 inch back from the absolute front edge in the centre.
Seat height (rear of bottom cushion at the joint with the seat back) when back as far as it will go to headliner is 34 inches.
Sounds like someone has raised the seat height - I just need to find out how....


Had a look at the brake booster bracket (I will get photos in the next couple of days) - as installed the rod seems to be back at the firewall and the pivot is visible through the round hole in the pedestal bracket that's shown in the 10 o'clock position. How vague a description is that!?!


Thanks for the interest guys....
 

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Part of the issue might be whether or not your car has footwells. I know when I ordered carpet for my 1964, all the places said you had to specify whether there were footwells or not. I.e. is your floor straight across and even with the doorsills or does it drop down maybe 1-1.5 inches. I couldn't find any conclusive information on why some cars had footwells and some didn't, like tied to specific body style numbers. Maybe it varied by assembly plant? Anyway, I guess if yours doesn't have footwells, this might account for your seat being slightly higher vs. something a previous owner did to the seat mounting hardware, esp. if it looks original.

Pat
 

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Thanks Raggaren
Great photo - not sure what I'm looking at there.


Thanks for the info and responses guys.

does this help.. one side of pedestal bracket off (kinda exploded view)

yellow arrow ,pedal pushrod (on right) connects to curved lever (on left)









 

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Discussion Starter #16
aha, great photo! So, the issue could be that the curved brave been installed backwards, making the push-rod hole too close to the booster and the pedal too close to the floor?


Assuming I can dismantle those components with the booster/bracket in place, or does it have to come out?


I'll try to get a photo today and attach it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
ok - back to the seat height question.
I've pulled the interior out to repair the floor and wheel wells, and here are a couple of photos of the seat frames.
One looks bent but I'm not sure if that's the normal position OR it it has been bent up? What do you guys think?
Both sides:

 

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pedal hight...
You did not say if the brake system is original.
FYI, and I"m sure you know, the booster has a good size spring
inside, to help return pedal to normal hight. Also
the piston could be cummed up a lot.. do you have dual
bowl master? I don't remember when Ford first used them.
Also there might be (on my 62) is a brake pedal return spring under
the dash...you should check that.. I'm only going from what my
62 has.
Seat, I have a bench seat in my 62 Ford wagon. and I found that
it has a seat back adjustment, that when I was asking about it, anyone
knew about and even when I found the right answer did not have the
correct part..
My seat back has 3 adjust bolts, that come up from the seat base
and will tilt the seat back up or laid back.. I did not see you saying
if your XL has buckets or bench.. and even if they are buckets seats
it could have a seat back adjustment..
hope you solve you problem...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi Sanddoc, thanks for the points.
I've done some rudimentary checking, the braking system is a single circuit, and the brakes operate pretty well.
I've inspected, cleaned and bled them and I'm convinced that they're WORKING perfectly, but the pedal will not return any higher, and I and putting a whole heap of "pull" on it with my hands - I think its a mechanical restriction, not something gummed up or a spring not installed.

I've yet to investigate the braking issue fully, but my suspicion is that it's something like the issue Raggaren has shown in his photographs.

the car has buckets, and I have adjusted the seat back as far as they'll go - my thought is (because the seat base is VERY close to the floor) that it's not a seay-mounting-bracket issue, but more likely the replacement foam when they were recovered is too thick and making the seat base too high.
 

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If the seats have been recovered that would be a big issue and will raise you up a couple inches. I carved my own foam for one of my bucket seats in my '64 and the driver side i bought the preshaped foam. It raised it a lot. I hated it and the wheel really rubbed on my legs so i swapped everything over and put the passenger seat in the driver's place. Much better! You might disassemble the seat bottom and shave off some of the foam.
 
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