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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am running a 63 289 in my wagon and want to change the heads so I don't have to run lead additives in my petrol, I will be buying from summit I think as they will deliver to my hotel when I'm in Vegas in march.
Trouble is I know nothing about what I need or have so can some one please help me . Do I need 64cc or 58cc . My thinking is bigger cc is lower compression
But that's it . Would either of these fit? 1963 FORD 4.7L/289 Ford Racing 302/351W Turbo Swirl Aluminum Cylinder Heads - Assembled Cylinder Head Style - Aluminum Cylinder Head Material - SummitRacing.com
I'm looking at aluminium as I can fit them on my own . Are there cheaper options ?
I am also changing the carb and manifold at same time , I realise I need a dual plane. Manifold but what size carb 500 or 600 , I very really go over 70 mph normally travelling around at 55-60 on a run and just low speed cruising round town .
I'm not looking for a fast engine just a torquier version of mine if that's possible lol.
Thanks in anticipation. Mark
, England
 

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run the heads you have as is. if the valves recede from the fuel, pull them and have hard seats put in. don't bother with the additive
 

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That x head does not deliver the bang for the buck.

Either rework the head or move up to a set of afr 165. They are $400 more but are light years ahead.
 

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Any chance there are any 97+ Ford explorers in the junkyards over there? If so grab the GT-40P heads off of one and bolt on and go! I have used these with Hedman shorties and Accel 8.8 pulg wires and did not burn the wires. Had in a 66 Ranchero for 10 years and it is still running today! Otherwise see if you can find someone with as set of GT-40 heads both heads will bolt on just mak sure you grab the bolt down rockers and stands with them. Otherwise I agree with ARF 165 heads.
 

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better find a new machine shop
+1. Around here, it's about $160 to $200 USD for all 16 seats. It should be equivalent almost anywhere. Nothing special about it from one engine type to another. I also agree that additive is a complete waste of money, as the lack of lead is not the cause of seat recession or valve burning. The GT40 heads are a direct bolt-on, where the GT40P can have interference issues with the spark plugs. Not always, but if you don't want any issues guaranteed, use the Non-P heads. There is no noticeable difference in performance between the versions, except that the non-P will out-flow the P head at higher valve lifts. If going aluminum, I also agree that AFR 165s would be a better choice. Either head choice will need different rocker arms to fit the specific head.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Lol @ explorers in scrap yards.
We have 2 machine shops in Norwich and they both charge similar, that's what it costs in England sadly.
So the edelbrock aluminium heads are no good ?
I need to do this on a budget I'm afraid so another $400 is not possible.
i thought i could only use heads upto 1985 as they went to hydraulic lifters then .
Basically I have a pair of spare heads that are from 68 ( I believe), these are stripped bare , valve guides are shot and seats are not hardened and I hawked these around the machine shops nod only 2 would do them at price stated . So I'm looking for a cheapish fix .
I have a chap in New York who can ship stuff and another chap in San Jose who can ship as well.
i am looking for some that i can bolt straight on when i get them .
if anyone has got any links to reasonable heads at good money please help.
Thanks from rip-off Britain
 

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You realy need the smallest port volume heads that you can find set up for mechanical lifters. 58 cc chambers would be best. Think that 64cc would be to much of a loss in compression in an older 289. some milling might be needed even with the 58s. Some loss would be good for running lower octane fuel. What intake carb are you running now? Planning a cam change at some point ? I am leanig towards a bit more power but economy being more important. Someting close to 160cc port would be best. Do you have any headers or other exhaust improvements? Thinking louder free flowing exhaust isnt excepted all that well over there.
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
At the moment engine is stock 289 with 2v autolite carb, I do have twin 2" exhaust with one small silencer on each .
I must admit after pricing everything up I can do a later model engine/c4 swap a Lot more economically , what year were hardened valve seats introduced.

Thanks everyone for helping me out here. I am a complete jump ty when it comes to 4stroke motors at the moment but I'm learning lol
 

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NO!!!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT BUY A FORD HEAD MADE BY MITSUBISHI!!!! NO no no no no!

Bad dog! Go sit down! Go on! Git!


OK now that you've been fairly warned... Buying overseas is hard, yes.

The price for a pair of virgin heads is Great @ £340, but Mitsubishi isn't Ford, and FURTHERMORE, you STILL need the Hardened Valve Seats installed.....

Now what's in the planning?
 

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Considering your purposes, one of the best values in an aluminum street head is the TFS Twisted Wedge 170. The strength of this head is the low-lift flow performance, which usually exceeds the performance of even smaller port heads. These heads are probably the best overall choice for a combination such as this, even displacing the AFR 165s. Where the 165s take the edge is in higher cam lifts over .550, where they flow better by a small margin. Your setup nor most hot street or mild race engines would not involve those lifts. However, with minor clean-up the high-lift flow exceeds the AFR 185, and mild porting can exceed the stock AFR 205, making an excellent choice for a head that has lots of room to grow with future mods.

The TW 170s are one of the earliest aftermarket designs, and yet still one of the most popular. Unfortunately, they are often avoided as higher lifts can cause valve-to-piston interference due to their valve angles. However, lifts under .500 (like yours) and often higher depending on cam timing are not an issue in small block Fords. Note with any of the aftermarket heads, new rockers and hardened pushrods will be required. Those parts would add around $150 to the cost.

Hardened integral seats have been standard in Fords since the 1950s. You'll notice even after the switch to unleaded fuels in the 1970s that Ford has continued to use the integral hardened seats to good effect. Note the last of the SBF heads (GT40 series through 2001) also use this method, just like the heads you have now. It is an urban legend that Fords need seat inserts, and there is no reason to replace the original seats with seat inserts unless they are damaged beyond repair, or certain HD or racing environments. There are several threads about this on the forums. If you are having issues with seat erosion or damage, it is most commonly the tuning of the engine (especially ignition) that needs attention. There are a number of articles by organizations such as SAE, AERA, and PERA about this, with extensive laboratory research to support it. Journals such as Engine Builder Magazine are a good source.

David
 

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FE: the listing did say it features "hardened exhaust seats", so I expect that refers to all valve seats, but certainly don't know for sure.

Pride63: How much do you drive the car? I don't think the valve seat issue and unleaded fuel is as big a worry as some make it out to be. I remember reading some other discussion on the board that indicated that all head castings were hardened in the valve area, so it was not necessary to machine perfectly good heads to install hardened seats. If the seats were too far gone to be saved, then new hardened inserts would be installed. I may be out to lunch on that, but that is what I recall. I do know that a number of people I know and trust don't think unleaded fuel is a real problem in regular use situations. When the heads fail and need rebuilding, then new hardened seats would be installed. Maybe your concern is not warranted. IDK.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have decided due to my employment in jeopardy situation that this can all wait until needed . I have learnt a few things during this thread which is very helpful so thank you to all participants on this subject.
I did about 4,000 miles in 6 months last year so am expecting to cover 8-10 this year if I am still employed.
 

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To be honest I would have to agree with the fact that there is no reason to put hardened seats in. I have 144K on my 390 and it has no issues at all and it runs regular 87 octane reformulated gas here. ;)
 

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when I had my 67 390 heads at the machine shop (at the guy who builds all the round track engines in this area), I asked him about this. His opinion was that for weekly cruiser status, it was unneeded expense. He could have easily lined his wallet with more dollars but advised otherwise.
I talked to another machine shop about the other looming issue for old cars, lack of zinc in modern formulated oils and they felt as long as the engine had been ran and broken in on the older oils, using speciality oils now (with more zinc) was unnecessary. These are 2 big things everyone has opinions about, hardened valve seats/unleaded/leaded gas and reformulated oils with no zinc in flat tappet hydraulic cam motors. So, I investigated both with machinists/machine shops. Not saying they're right, just reporting what they said.
To this day, I've had no issues running my 65 Chevy with 327 and 4 speed and my 67 LTD with 390 on unleaded gas with stock valve seats, and modern oils admittedly both are rarely driven and certainly not daily drivers. I've had MANY issues related to ethanol eating rubber diaphrams and have had to replace fuel pumps, cleaned gas tanks and lines and replace carbs, but no issues otherwise.
 

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I purchased a set of DOOE heads from a 69 Couger back in 70. Years later in pocket ported them comp valve job and installed them on my 84 mustang in 87 or so. As a daily driver put 160,000 on them with no seat or valve deserable wear. Fully ported them installed larger valves and have about 30,000 on them have removed the heads twice and no wear.
Only ford engine I have had seat issues with is the 351C, M and 400s so far.

For realy good economy with improvements in performance in a 302 or smaller I dont care for the bigger aluminum heads even with the popular idea that useing a small intake fixes the issue. Basicly how I got 32.9 MPG out of a 87 Grand Marquis and made a lot of stock pony cars look bad.
 
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