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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1966 MUSTANG 200CID C4 TRANS:


ok here is my problem guys maybe you guys can help. everybody probably knows that majority of things on cars that spins needs to be balanced. not everything but all the big parts do. wheels, driveline, engine crank, and etc.


well this last past feb. the transmission started to go out. it all started when we parked it for 2 straight days (this is a daily driver) and when we went to drive it when we came back from a lil trip we let the car warm up for a minute, then shifted it into drive and the trans did nothing. we played with it a lil more and then it finally went into drive. however there was nothing wrong with the shifter or linkage to trans.

after that horrible freightening day thinking that our trans was on the verge to take a crap, it did. lots of vibration was there. even at low speeds. put the baby in park and rev it a lil bit it will vibrate.

when after driving the car like that for a while th trans started to not go into 3rd gear and sometimes i would. then after driving it like that for a lil while got us frustrated and decided just to change the fluid and filter to see a chang happens. nothing happened.

we took it to trans shop and had the trans rebuilt. the problem was that the torque converter fell apart and shedded alot of metal. there was alot of metal found during the fluid change. 2 days later was when the trans shop found alot more metal in the fluid. trans shop said that the metal falling off the converter clogged the entire trans and created somuch heat it burned up 2nd and 3rd gear.

ok, it took alot of negotation to get the converter and overhaul to only 600 bucks. the transmisson shifted after the rebuild. however i just picked up the trans and installed it myslf at the shop i work at on military base. thing wasn't gettin out of first gear. HOWEVER the vibration was completly gone. but again i wasn't going past 30mph cuz it wasn't going past 1st gear. so took it back to trans shop they fixed th problem. they said the valves were sticking in the valve body. they did everything for free becaue of their error. however AGAIN we picked up the car and the trans shifted nicely and firmly. but there was a little vibration in the center of the car.

we left the car alone like this for about 2-3 months. and now it brings me today's frustration. we brought it to trans shop and they said there is a harmonic rotating vibration somewhere and he said it's the u-joints. so i changed them out this early morning. the u-joints seemed fine but the front one was very floppy and the caps wouldn't stay unless you put the inside clips in. so what did that tell me? it needs a new endyoke. and plus the driveshaft had no weights on it. called driveline specialist and they said there is only mabe 1 out of 5000 driveshafs that doesn't need weights to be balanced. well, for old cars for the most par. so i took it to the driveline specialist and had them install a new endyoke and balaced the entire drivelne. there was about 4 places where it was dented in a lil bit so they pulled those dents out and placed the weight on to be nicely balanced. that came out to be 90 bucks.

i slipped in the rebuilt driveline about 1730 today and took it out. the vibration is lessened but not totally gone. i could tell its not in the middle of the car where the driveline is as much t all. so i told myself maybe it's something simple like balance all 4 of my magnum wheel. maybe a dam weight fell off. well all 4 wheels are still balanced.

NOW IT BRINGS ME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT MAYBE THE DAM TORQUE CONVERTER COULD BE VIBRATING THE CAR AGAIN.

-OR-

IT COULD BE THAT THE DAMPER HAS MOVED BUT IT LOOKS FINE THOUGH. BUT LET ME TELL YOU GUY THIS, WE DID HAVE 68 DIST BUT THEN WENT TO A 66 DIST. THE TIMING ON THE OLD DIST WHERE IT RAN GOOD WAS 13, RIGHT NOW ITS AT "6". AND IT KINDA STILL PINGS AT ONLY 6. THIS MAYBE TELLS ME THAT THE DAMPER HAS MOVED AND MAYBE IS GIVING INNACURATE TIMING READINGS.



I'M SO CONFUSED TO WHICH PROBLEM I SHOULD PURSUE NEXT. THE REASON BEING IS BECAUSE BOTH ARE COSTLY AND TIME CONSUMING. MY FIANCE NEEDS HER CAR EVERYDAY TO GO TO WORK. AND WHEN SHE DOESN'T HAVE IT SHE FREAKIN HOTRODS MY 73 MUSTANG TO WORK
PLEASE HELP.


PURSUE DAMPER PROBLEM?
PURSUE TORQUE CONVERTER PROBLEM?


PS. ALL MOUNTS ARE FINE.


PSS. ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN CAUSE VIBRATION TO ANYONE ELSE'S KNOWLEDGE?

HEY I'M STILL A STUDENT OF THE AUTOMOTIVE WORLD SO I NEED TO LEARN.

OLIE

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XolieX on 6/1/02 4:39pm ]</font>
 

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Sounds like you have done everything right so far.Just for future ,always ensure you flush out the cooler for the trans when fitting a new one.It too will be full of metal and contaminate your fresh trans.You may have done this but i suspect you didn't when you mention you had probs with your rebuilt unit.
Onto the vibration.I would have a look at the diff pinion angle.Check the rear diff mounts where the diff sits on the rear springs.I have seen these with age bend slightly which allows the front of the diff to move upwards and you end up with a positive pinion angle which sets up a vibration.Looking at the diff,the front of the diff where the yoke is usually sits flat or slightly downward.If it is up at all then this could be the prob...H-T-H
 

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Get in the car, take it past your vibration speed if it vibrates in every speed take it to 50 mph. shut engine off and coast in nuetral,if vibration stops,it is in engine if it persists it is in drive line,I went through same thing, I feel it for you.I had a ranchero I replaced every thing, it wasn't untill the harmonic balancer broke in half it hadn't slipped just cracked in half.check for correct flex plate and check flex plate for cracks.If I remember right 6 cyl. ford is internally balanced with no weight on flex plate.Good luck
 

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I used to have a C4 and I swear that after I had the trans rebuilt, the vibration was much worse. I think it had to do with the torque converter not being bolted up correctly. It has been a long time since I had the C4 though.

But, don't discount the driveline angle. When I put some shims between the rear housing and the leafs, the was noticeable improvement. You get them at 4x4 shops and are made for this type of application. The shims are tapered kinda like a super thin slice of pie on it's edge and they are made from aluminum with a hold in the middle for the locator.

Hope this helps. Too many people get bogged down on the whole u-joint vibration snipe hunt!
 

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Another thing to try is a new transmission mount if you haven't already replaced it. Try a to get a poly-urine-stain bushing if you can as the rubber ones rot and are not as sturdy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well i forgot to type in that the vibration is pulsive. it's not a constant vibration, it vibrates every 2-3seconds. and this is basically at ALL speeds.

and no its not the driveline, we got it rebuilt yesterday and it has two new u-joints.

the transmission mount is also new. the rubber is not cracked.

and by the way, on this six cyl. i have non-a/c and powersteering. do i need a single groove or a double groove balancer?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
oh yea i forgot to type in that if you were to go under the car an play wth the driveline you can move the slipyoke up and down when ti's insid the trans. its the slipyoke insert area of the trans. that area i allowing the slip yoke to move up and down if you touch it.

im not sure if this could be it, on my 73 mach 1 c6 trans, it doen't move for ****.

could this be it?
 

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so, if I understand your last post, the tranny yoke moves up and down? The only movement should be the yoke in and out when the rear end moves via the springs.
Also, measure the yoke. Make sure at least 75% of it is in the tranny. It sounds like the yoke / shaft may be too short. Is this the original?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yes it's the original driveline. and yes it goes in about 75% in. to further explain myself or just clear myself up. i just go under the car and if you were to push up on the front of the driveline where the slip yoke is, you will see the slip yoke able to move up and down in the end of the trans. when i took out the drivline and put in the trans plug to stop the leak, you can also move the trans plug up and down. and yes the trans plug is all the way in.

can this be a problem with vibration? or is this a lil bit normal. i could honestly tell you guys that my original c6 trans out of my 73 mustang, you can't move the slip yoke up and down in the end of the trans.

am i worrying too much about something that ain't causing the vibration?

if it's the damper, what else can i see rather than seeing the rubber crackedor swallowed up?

if it's the torque converter, wouln't it vibrate at all speeds like it is?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
also as well,

until before this tradegy with the tranmission in feb. of this year. the 66 mustang baby 200cid c4 trans mission ran real strong for it's size. i use to always drive it on the highway and get completely smoothness out of i. use to drive it at 70mph and wouldn't even notice the car was on.

just until his trans problem all this vibration had to be tolerated with.
 

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Experienced this in a '90 T-bird with an AOD.

I too noticed vertical movement at the trans yoke, so I decided to get rid of that slop ASAP.

The vibration stopped when I replaced the tailshaft bushing in the trans. Cost me 25 bucks when I took the tailhousing to a local trans shop.

Hope this helps,

Greg P
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
to replace a tailshaft bushing in the trans, do they have to take out the trans to do this? or do thy just need to take out the end part of the trans? how much do you think it would be for the bushing part and to do the labor?

so i guess the movement at the end of the trans isn't normal?

thanks man, you helpe quite a bit. i'm going to the trans shop first thing in the morning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
in the other forum i'm in (the fordsix), another person said it could possibly be the ring and opinoin gear.

can the ring and opinoin give vibration in park when reving the engine? how abot a pulsive rev at speeds?

anybody have a 7.5 rearend on hand for a spare for 66?
 
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