Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
576 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I had somebody tell me that running an oil formulated for a diesel engine ( Shell Rotella ) was good to run in 289 SBF because of the the high zinc content. It's a low mileage, .040 over 289 that is street driven mostly on the weekends. I've been running Valvoline 20/50 racing since the engine was new and was wondering if there was a better option. What say you??
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
Its what you want if your running flat tappet cams.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,924 Posts
The last time I looked into it the ZDDP levels in Rotella had dropped to similar to regular, gas engine oils, to meet the current ratings. Quaker State has relativley new product named 'Defy' (seems to be rebranded Extreme Duty, or High Mileage) that has 1000 ppm Zinc, from what I've seen posted. It is a synthetic blend and the Zinc levels should be much higher than currently available Rotella T. I just changed my oil and am giving Defy a try.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,337 Posts
ROTELLA T has been reformulated to meet heavy truck emissions and has reduced zinc/phosphorus. It was once a popular oil but there are now better formulations.

-BRAD PENN- is a correct zinc engine oil or you can use any popular oil with a bottle of ZDDP.

Racing oils do not have the needed detergent/dispersant packages needed for street operation and 20W-50 is a very heavy oil for the street.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,312 Posts
-BRAD PENN- is a correct zinc engine oil or you can use any popular oil with a bottle of ZDDP.
+1 to the other posts. You can use most any oil you want to, and adjust the ZDDP level with additive. The target for best protection is around 1200 ppm. Less as well as more ppm do not protect as well. I am currently using Chevron oil from Costco with ZDDP additive for example.

You could go bonkers with this stuff. You can also buy additives for dispersants, de-foamers, detergents, viscosity polymers, friction modifiers, high-pressure lubrication modifiers, etc. In effect, you could home-brew your own version of any oil out there, or one you think is better. That's all the specialty oil companies are doing. As I try to have a life, I let Chevron (or whomever) do all that and I just adjust the ZDDP. ;)

David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,479 Posts
+1 to the other posts. You can use most any oil you want to, and adjust the ZDDP level with additive. The target for best protection is around 1200 ppm. Less as well as more ppm do not protect as well. I am currently using Chevron oil from Costco with ZDDP additive for example.

You could go bonkers with this stuff. You can also buy additives for dispersants, de-foamers, detergents, viscosity polymers, friction modifiers, high-pressure lubrication modifiers, etc. In effect, you could home-brew your own version of any oil out there, or one you think is better. That's all the specialty oil companies are doing. As I try to have a life, I let Chevron (or whomever) do all that and I just adjust the ZDDP. ;)

David
Once again I bow to your knowledge and ability to share it in terms we can all understand. :bow:

Another thing I always ran into when I worked in the oil/fuel business is people trying to compare brands of gasoline and/or oil and hearing how much better their car ran on Chevron, Shell, Texaco, etc. While the majors do have their "special additives", gasoline is basically gasoline and you aren't going to feel the difference just because you changed brands one day.

I didn't mean to hack the thread - just popped into my head.

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,658 Posts
Be careful "brewing" oil by adding ZDDP or other additives. While it's probably better than nothing, dumping a bunch of anti-wear into an oil that doesn't have detergent formulation to accommodate that generally makes the ZDDP less effective. On top of that, it's getting really hard to find EOS.

Brad Penn is a great oil, if a bit expensive.

Here's a monstrous thread on the impact of modern oil formulations on flat tappets, as well as oils with "high enough" amounts of ZDDP. Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils - Pelican Parts Technical BBS It's from a Porsche forum, but flat tappets are flat tappets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
You absolutely can’t go wrong with Brad Penn.
I also used Shell Rotella in my 429CJ until they lowered the ZDDP. That is when I started researching oils. After using Brad Penn 1oo% American oil I was impressed so much I started selling their product.
Here is a list of dealers in what I think is your area. Bakersfield ?
http://locator.penngrade1.com/default.aspx
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
576 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I know of Brad Penn oils as I am in the Porsche business. It is a bit pricey but I understand it is da kine.
It was suggested that I run a good quality 10/40 oil with a bottle of Lucas Oil break-in additive and be done. Lucas claims it's good for break in as well as an additive when doing an oil change.
If you break down the price of the oil and additive combined, you're at 9 bucks a quart so I might as well buy the Brad Penn schtuff!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,312 Posts
If you break down the price of the oil and additive combined, you're at 9 bucks a quart so I might as well buy the Brad Penn schtuff!
Brad Penn is good stuff. Still, if you do the math, it only takes 4 oz of additive to do 5 quarts of oil to 1200 ppm levels. If you add the whole bottle you get 5,000 ppm - way too much. That's assuming you start with 800 ppm like the Chevron I use at $3 a quart after tax. The additive is just under $15/16 oz with tax, so that's $15 for the oil and $3.75 for the additive. I can almost fit an FL1A filter in with it at $20 for the whole deal. That's less than half of the $9/quart figure. And, yes, it has all the other detergents and stuff in it already. If I didn't mix my own, I might go for BP. Well, being realistic, probably not. After shipping, that's more expensive than aviation oils or synthetics. Just not a good value for me personally. If it's your gig, that's cool, it's good stuff so be happy with it.
:tup:
David
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
576 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
+1 to the other posts. You can use most any oil you want to, and adjust the ZDDP level with additive. The target for best protection is around 1200 ppm. Less as well as more ppm do not protect as well. I am currently using Chevron oil from Costco with ZDDP additive for example.

You could go bonkers with this stuff. You can also buy additives for dispersants, de-foamers, detergents, viscosity polymers, friction modifiers, high-pressure lubrication modifiers, etc. In effect, you could home-brew your own version of any oil out there, or one you think is better. That's all the specialty oil companies are doing. As I try to have a life, I let Chevron (or whomever) do all that and I just adjust the ZDDP. ;)

David
What brand of additive do you use??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,312 Posts
I used Red Line's EOS (they call it Break In Additive), which follows nearly the same ratios as the Lucas that was mentioned (and I calculated for) earlier, though even better. Most of your shelf oils are around 800 ppm of ZDP, zinc and phosphorous. So, you're only trying to bump it around 400 ppm. Now I use some bulk additives through a friend in the oil biz, but it's only saving me $4 per oil change at retail. You can get Red Line BIA at $9.50 a bottle by the case with free shipping on Amazon for example - that's under $2.50 per 5-quart oil change if you want a lifetime supply. ;) Well, 12 years at 4 changes per year.

David
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top