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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm almost done rebuilding my C4 tranny for "project sleeper" but I've run into some differences in torque specs between the instructions for my shift kit and my ford manual regarding v/b bolts and band adjustments.

The shift kit instructions say to assemble the v/b together and use an in./lbs. torque ~~~~ch and tighten the bolts to 18-20 in./lbs., my ford manual says 40-55 in./lbs. I ended up going to 30 in./lbs. is that ok?

Second thing is the band adjustment screws, shift kit instructions say to tighten screws to 10-12 in./lbs. and back off 1.5 turns for the int. band and 2 turns for low/reverse band. Ford manual say tighten to 10-12 ft./lbs. and back off 1.75 turns for int. band and 3 turns for low/reverse band. That's a big difference for specs between inch and ft/lbs. So which is right? I remember the C4's I've rebuild a long time ago I stuck with the instructions that came with the shift kit since that was what I was putting into my tranny and never had a problem, I just want to be sure as I near the completion of the rebuild.
 

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I would follow the shift kit's instructions. I usually go by feel on the Intermediate band adj, you want it tight but not tight enough to hold the drum from turning. I also lightly cross sand the drum, which I feel gives a firmer apply. The ford manual is for stock specs. Did you shift kit have you remove the outer seal on your Intermediate band servo. Some kits have you just remove the seal others want you to remove the seal and grind 3 flats.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: windsoreight on 2/9/02 9:07am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: windsoreight on 2/9/02 9:36am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
On 2002-02-08 21:04, windsoreight wrote:
I would follow the shift kit's instructions. THe ford manual is for stock specs. Did you shift kit have you remove the outer seal on your Intermediate band. Some kits have you just remove the seal others want you to remove the seal and grind 3 flats.
No, it doesn't say anything about doing anything with the bands other than the adjustments needed with the kit. BTW I'm using a trans-go shift kit with this tranny. I had used this kit before with the other trannies and they've worked well. One previous tranny I tried a B&M shift kit with the trick shift fluid in it and it seems to be the same as the trans-go kit with type F fluid. I'll stick with the shift kit instructions, thanks windsoreight.
 

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Just to add to windsoreights comment....If you use that servo mod you must also drill,tap and plug the hole in the case or your servo apply pressure will dump back into the pan...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
update: did some major running around this morning to get the pressure plate on the reverse/high drum machined so the snap ring will fit with the right clearances. I ended up fitting an extra friction plate on that drum (now both drums have 5 friction plates) but the pressure plate needed to be machined down a slight amount since the snap ring wouldn't fit and with 4 clutches it was too loose, now hopefully I can finish this tranny later today or tomorrow. I did some calculations with the selective thrust washers and when the frt. pump goes in I should end up with 0.017" endplay (I will double check this with an indicator when it is installed, hopefully I won't have to pull it out again when it's torqued down). Before I pulled the tranny apart I had 0.066" endplay so that'll tighten the tranny right up with the new washers.......will keep you all updated.
 

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You really didn't need to go through the pain to get 5 clutches in the Intermediate drum. The forward drum is the one to put 5 or even 6 clutches in. 4 clutches are fine for the Intermediate drum. I really hate cutting down a pressure plate because the thinner it is the more it will deflect. YOu could of had a new snap ring groove cut into the drum. But 4 clutches is fine I have never had problems with the Intermediate drum. It is the forward drum that takes most of the force. I have get my forward drums cut with a new snap ring groove for 6 clutches and the thick pressure plate.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: windsoreight on 2/10/02 3:03am ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
windsoreight, the guy at the machine shop (a performance tranny shop I deal with) didn't machine the pressure plate across the whole surface, just the outer surface enough to get the snap ring in with the proper clearance. I tried looking for a thinner snap ring first which is what all the running around was this morning, he assures me that the plate will be fine and can handle the extra hp and torque my 351W will ultimately dish out at it. I didn't think about the possibility of cutting an extra snap ring groove at the time + I had the piston and spring reinstalled a few days ago and wasn't about to go through the trouble of pulling it out again. It may not be necessary to have the extra plate in the reverse/high drum but it won't hurt to have it there to handle the torque, and I do have 5 clutches in the other drum which is more than what regular C4's come with anyway so I'm pretty sure this tranny will be able to take what I'm going to throw at it. Thanks for your help and advice, it has made my rebuild go well without any problems.
 

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How did you stack the clutches in the intermediate drum. I think if you add another clutch you have to add another steel. It should have a steel on the piston. Which would mean you would have to add both an extra steel and clutch. Just make sure the forward drum goes in and bottoms out. It may bottom out on the pressure plate instead of the bushing surface. I'm just curious.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
On 2002-02-09 17:43, windsoreight wrote:
How did you stack the clutches in the intermediate drum. I think if you add another clutch you have to add another steel. It should have a steel on the piston. Which would mean you would have to add both an extra steel and clutch. Just make sure the forward drum goes in and bottoms out. It may bottom out on the pressure plate instead of the bushing surface. I'm just curious.
Yes I added the extra friction plate and a thin steel one. I started with the steel plate on the piston then the friction etc. etc. until my last plate was the thick pressure plate which got machined down enough as I posted earlier for me to put the snap ring on with the right clearances. The height of the pressure plate that didn't get machined is still below the height of the centre bushing area of the drum and I've placed the forward drum into the reverse/high drum to check it and felt it engaging all 5 friction plates as it went on so it is bottoming on the bushing area and not the pressure plate, thanks for the caution. I'm heading to the basement now to finish this tranny, will post later as to the final results.
 

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Cman,you wont have a prob with the machined pressure plate.I do all mine with a .060" step cut into the outer edge enough to get the snap ring in and leave the p/plate the full thickness on the inner section.The 5 clutches in both hubs will be plenty.
Just out of curiousity what thickness clutches and steels are you using.
Just another tip you could use to save some machining is to use the step plate from the forward clutch that goes against the belleville disc , in the high/rev drum.A thicker snap ring will then give you the correct clearance.
Windsoreight ,when you say intermediate drum i assume you mean the direct/hi-rev drum..I'm not being smart just checking.
The .017" end float will be ok but sometimes even after all the calculations the e/f for some reason ends up a little tighter so you'll be sweet.
Just to check ,you are using the small #2 thrust washer to work out your end float.
Once you get the correct #2 washer you sit the hi/rev+fwd hubs on the front pump and work out the correct #1 washer so it is a snug fit.I'm just checking as some guys get a little confused about this..Better to find out now..Good luck.
 

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THe intermediate and the high/rev drum are the same thing. THat is awesome to know about the high/rev. drum. I have never tried to add 5 clutches to it. I never felt the need and never had any problems with the 4 clutches. Thanks for the info though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
gregaust, sorry I don't have the #'s for the thickness of the steel plates and the clutch plates. My calipers are at work. I will measure the thickness of the parts as I bought some spares that weren't used and measure them and get back to you. Check my other post if you haven't already as I've finished putting my C4 together. Thanks.
 

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On all the C4/C5's I have ever built, stock or HP, I have always subtracted a 1/2 turn from the band adjustments and never had a problem. I have never used a torque wrench for the valve body bolts or bands. If you use a 1/4" wrench and get the band snugged with the 1/4" wrench (the wrench is a std craftsman and about 3.5" long) you will be pretty close to 10 ft/lbs. Same goes for the VB, I use a 1/4 drive ratchet and socket and a good snug with one hand steading the socket and a single finger pulling the ratchet snug. I have never had a problem with this method. And tha goes for the C6's, AX4n's and the E4OD's I have put shift kits in or a total rebuild on them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I adjusted the bands tonight and I want to double check the torque figures.

From the trans-go shift kit instructions: tighten band screws to 10-12 in./lbs. and back off 1.75 turns for the int. band and 2 turns for the reverse band.

When I torqued the screws to 10-12 in./lbs. (with a in./lbs. torque wrench) the int. band seems to be loose going by the feel of the adjustment screw (like I can almost turn it with my fingers), I just want to make sure this is correct. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread my ford manual say 10-12 ft./lbs. for the band adjustments before backing them off to tighten the locknut.

There was another post I saw earlier about C4 band adjustments and the person mentioned torquing the screws to 120 in./lbs. which is like 12 ft./lbs.
 

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Ok, So I'm in the dark about the whole intermediate band servo modification. What do you do to the servo, and what does it accomplish? I have built many c4's, never heard of this before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
On 2002-02-13 22:11, mavman wrote:
Ok, So I'm in the dark about the whole intermediate band servo modification. What do you do to the servo, and what does it accomplish? I have built many c4's, never heard of this before.
I'm not familiar with the servo mod either but if you haven't seen this yet check it out and it should give you more info about it.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=56&forum=13&1
 

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Here is the servo mod. Remove the outer seal and grind 3 flats around the outside(where the outer seal goes). Tap and plug the hole in the case. I would reccomend one of the bigger servos. Also it wouldn't hurt to put a heaver spring in. It gives you a faster and stronger apply.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: windsoreight on 2/14/02 11:40am ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: windsoreight on 2/16/02 9:26am ]</font>
 
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