Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just researching this booster. When I put my Torino on the drag strip 30 years ago I removed the power brake booster and the brakes suck big time now.

I think I put a master cylinder from a non power type car and never did get good braking out of it.I still used the existing distribution block and have a line lock also. The brakes never did bleed for me very good. This car was only run on the strip 2 Saturdays 30 years ago. Then as it went I got married and now its time to play with it.

With the cam I am running it would never produce enough vacuum and I figured I would go without power assist.

Anyone here have any electric power booster you like so I can use the power assist the car came with?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,312 Posts
I see you have 3 choices:

  1. Do a proper manual brake conversion including MB pedal for good stopping power.
  2. Reinstall the booster and vacuum canister and learn how to keep vac in the system with a lumpy cam.
  3. Add a vacuum pump to assist the system or act as stand-alone vac.
#2 is easiest, #1 is most reliable and probably cheapest unless you have a known good booster, and #3 is most expensive unless you're willing to use JY parts, but keeps reliable PB.

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
David is a Manual brake pedal shaped differently from the power brake pedal?
Is the power distribution block OK to use with the non power master cylinder?

The CPP electric vac pump is $329.00 not too bad but the ABS set up is way high.

"learn how to keep vac in the system with a lumpy cam" ideas????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,312 Posts
David is a Manual brake pedal shaped differently from the power brake pedal?
The shape may be different, but the big thing is the difference between the pivot point and pushrod pin. Manual brakes use a much higher ratio for leverage. If switching to MB from power, you must use the higher leverage stock MB pedal (or modify yours with available pins or have it done at a specialty shop) or you will have very crappy brakes - as you found out. See one of my posts here.
Is the power distribution block OK to use with the non power master cylinder?
I presume you mean the 5-port stock brake fluid distribution block. Yes, it's fine.
The CPP electric vac pump is $329.00 not too bad but the ABS set up is way high.
That's one option, or there are various factory cars with vacuum pumps. New ones from mid-'90s Camaros, Olds, etc are about $170 like the pic from RockAuto below. You can often find them used in the 'yards or on auction sites. The used ones (unless they've sat for many years) are usually fine and reliable, as they are a factory safety component.
"learn how to keep vac in the system with a lumpy cam" ideas????
PBs use vacuum built-up in the booster and in many cars a vacuum canister. In these two gizmos, one-way valves keep the vac there even when you idle or accelerate with no vacuum. Factory brakes are designed to give two to three power applications before losing power assist. More on versions with vac canisters.

Guys who drive race and lumpy-cam street cars with PBs simply make sure the system is solid and leak-free (holds vac indefinitely) and charge the system with decelerations. This is done at any time by letting you foot off the throttle, or it at idle, by raising the RPMs some and letting the engine decel. You don't have tho 'wing' the engine, just raise the RPMs and let them drop. Bingo - charged system. BTW - this is why you sometimes see drivers of hot street cars varying their engine speed at stoplights or blipping the throttle - not to 'clear the throat, but to top-off brake vac. Manual trans cars have no problem keeping vac when granny-shifted.

If you are keeping power steering, you could go really sexy and powerful with Hydro-Boost PBs. HTH

David

Factory electric vacuum pump, used for brakes and sometimes for crankcase evacuation by racers:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,330 Posts
You could also go to electric hydra boost. Not the cheapest way to go but works great and takes up no space under the hood if you don't want to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
  1. Do a proper manual brake conversion including MB pedal for good stopping power.
  2. Reinstall the booster and vacuum canister and learn how to keep vac in the system with a lumpy cam.
  3. Add a vacuum pump to assist the system or act as stand-alone vac.
#2 is easiest, #1 is most reliable and probably cheapest unless you have a known good booster, and #3 is most expensive unless you're willing to use JY parts, but keeps reliable PB.

Is this the right set up? I see no Disc brake emblem on the brake pedal.
Or where there non disk brake power brake set ups?


FORD 1968 TORINO FAIRLANE RANCHERO CLUTCH & BRAKE PEDAL ASSEMBLY 1969? | eBay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,312 Posts
Power setups are drum or disc. Same for manual. Look at your pedal setup, and compare the brake pushrod pin location. If it's the same as what you already have, it's PB. If the pin is closer to the pivot, it's MB. Check the link in the first paragraph of my last post (and follow the link in there) for the type of visual difference you're looking for.

David

From MustangSteve.com shows the comparative locations of MC pushrod pins. Other models are similar:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Power setups are drum or disc. Same for manual. Look at your pedal setup, and compare the brake pushrod pin location. If it's the same as what you already have, it's PB. If the pin is closer to the pivot, it's MB. Check the link in the first paragraph of my last post (and follow the link in there) for the type of visual difference you're looking for.

David

From MustangSteve.com shows the comparative locations of MC pushrod pins. Other models are similar:
Thanx once again,
My son and I have been to Seattle about 5 years ago.
What a nice downtown you have.
Did the underground tour
Pikes market
Drank coffee at the first Starbucks
Music experience project
Science center
and the Space Needle

Walked the town a few days before we knew the buses where free :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
I'm catching the rear end of this conversation. But, is your Torino a 68/69? Cause if it is, the PB and MB brake pedal are the same. They made up for the different ratio with the relocation bracket for the power booster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I'm catching the rear end of this conversation. But, is your Torino a 68/69? Cause if it is, the PB and MB brake pedal are the same. They made up for the different ratio with the relocation bracket for the power booster.

AHH you hit it right! see my post above.
The PB master cylinder sits prolly 3" higher than the manual one.

Now maybe I have the wrong manual master cylinder in there or there is still air in the lines.

Any part numbers on the master cylinder?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Another option is going hydroboost that operates off a power steering pump. You can go hydratech (expensive but easiest) or find a donor out of a 96+ Mustang. The reason for the 96+ mustang is the accumulator is clocked in the correct orientation and the booster has an incline to it, the MC has the ports in good location that wont hit the shock towers. It will require some modifications to get it to go in. Some of the modifications to get it to go in, is redrill the baseplate of the booster, modify the pushrod going to the booster, relocate the pin on the brake booster down approximately 1-1/8" down. I've got it in place in my 68, haven't hooked the lines up yet. But heres what it would look like if you wanted to go this route.

It takes a descent amount of fab work. But will result in higher line pressures than a traditional vaccuum booster.


The best part I like about it thus far, is it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, almost looks like it should have always been there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Another option is going hydroboost that operates off a power steering pump. You can go hydratech (expensive but easiest) or find a donor out of a 96+ Mustang. The reason for the 96+ mustang is the accumulator is clocked in the correct orientation and the booster has an incline to it, the MC has the ports in good location that wont hit the shock towers. It will require some modifications to get it to go in. Some of the modifications to get it to go in, is redrill the baseplate of the booster, modify the pushrod going to the booster, relocate the pin on the brake booster down approximately 1-1/8" down. I've got it in place in my 68, haven't hooked the lines up yet. But heres what it would look like if you wanted to go this route.

It takes a descent amount of fab work. But will result in higher line pressures than a traditional vaccuum booster.


The best part I like about it thus far, is it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, almost looks like it should have always been there.
no power steering on my car thanx, tho
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top