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Discussion Starter #1
have 289/c4 combo. There is a gap about 1/8" in part of the bell housing to the engine. The torque got very hard to tighten. It is flush at the top but the gap is on the sides.
While attepmting to remove the gap, I cracked the bell housing (hairline crack that progresses toward the center about 5".
Questions are. can I live with this crack since Its really secure and not decigned to hold fluid anyway.. maybe a sealer on it?
And HOW to I move the torque converter around to get to the other converter bolts. I only have the first one tight and its flush. I cant hand turn the crank...
Any help appreciated!!!!! by the way, had a hell of a time getting the motor mounts to line up with the brackets. that took almost a day by itself!!!
 

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I dont think you had the toque converter in all of the way.

I would take the bellhouseing off and have it welded up.
 

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I agree, it doesn't sound like you had the torque coverter seated properly. You need to push on it while turning, and you should feel 3 solid clunks. When the converter is seated properly, you'll be able to turn the crank easily, and the bellhousing will fit flush without any trouble.

You could get the bellhousing welded with good results, but it may be easier to just find another bellhousing, and it'd probably be cheaper.

-Brian
 

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I agree with the other two guys, and also, if you were putting enough pressure on the innards of the torque converter and the flexplate to crack the bellhousing, I'd have to wonder if they were damaged in the process too. Sorry things aren't going well man, but I think we've all been there at some point in time, so I feel for ya.
 

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There should be no crack! The torque was probably not seated. When its seated right, the bellhousing will be right up against the block and you should be able to still turn the torque converter before you bolt it to the flexplate.
 

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I hope you didn't do what I did 2 years ago. I had the same thing happen because the converter was no seated all of they way. When I used the bolts to "snug" everything together I trashed the transmission. I got it all together, started it but it wouldn't go any where.
Good Luck
 

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I would have to agree with every one else here and say the convetor is not seated properly.My suggestion is take it back apart(a pain I know) but its the safe way because if convertor is not in all the way and you fire it up damage is highly probable.Had this happen to me and bent the mating surface on the convertor.
 

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To bring your converter bolts up to the access cover you just turn the crank over by hand with a big socket on the damper bolt. Don't bolt any of the converter bolts down until you have it pinched together and all the bolts are through the flex plate. You should actually be able to wobble the converter a little with it in place. If you can't, its bound up somehow.

Next time(heh, not funny I know) trial fit your converter and make sure it will seat all the way against the flexplate and go into the pilot hole in the back of the crank. I've had painted ones that were just too tight to go in. If you try and push it a little edge or burr will come up on the converter snout and then it won't go for sure. On my 8 inch converter I had to sand the crank pilot hole and the converter snout to get it to go in the hole. It was just that tight. Of course this came after I had it fitted together and it wouldn't go so I had to back it all out and start over.

It would not be recommended to try and run a cracked bell housing unless its just a chip around the outside somewhere. I have the old step case C4 bellhousing that came off my 65. I had it sold and was cleaning it up last week to put in the box and found a small chipped spot around one of the engine peg holes. I've been laying JB Weld into it to build it back up. It will work fine. It ran on my 289 chipped and all for 10 years. Even better than that, its CHEAP! LOL.




_________________
1965 289 Mustang 2+2

best et to date: 12.53 @ 108.22
best et backwards: 12.59 @ 107.5

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hottarod on 4/1/02 4:23am ]</font>
 

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Just to CYA. (cover your ass), I"d pull the front pump on the C4 and inspect for damage there as well. If you put enough pressure on the bellhousing to crack/break it, (which by the way I would not repair.), easier to replace it.......... anyway, again, as long as it has to come apart anyway, I'd sure as heck check the pump!........My .002

Old fashioned way of checking to make sure the converter was in all the way, (kinda messy depending on how full trans is, etc), anyway, stand her on her ass,(tailstock down, obviously), and turn/spin the converter until you hear the aforementioned 3 clunks. You will noticeably see/feel the converter fall down into the pump/seal/splines.
Mark somehow, (marker/scribe/whatever), and again, depending on how your method of getting the trans UP to the engine is, (some people use their bellies, some armstrong it, some are smart enough/(or have friends with tranny jacks), and use them.
Sometimes you can bolt a little piece of metal, (or a wrench), against the converter and one of the inspection plate bolt holes, (just to keep the converter from falling forward, (out of the splines), while you're fanaggling it around, getting it close to install heigth.
Then also I like to use lineup studs. About 3/4" to an inch long into the engine block. Sure helps (when you've got the room/access), for lining the little puppy up. Especially whey you HAVEN'T got a jack, and you're tossing it in on your fat little stomach, (mine), from the ground.........
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ok- update. We pulled the engine out again. Luckily what I thought was a crack was not. The torque converter was then pushed in all the way, no doubt about it. then engine lowered and slowly, side to side, tightened to pull it snug. motor mounts/brackets were a challenge, but its all together in, tight, with no cracks. just took another day from me. But... I put one nut on the torque conveter. cant turn the motor by hand at the crank. cant even turn it with a wrench... or at least it feels like i'm going to break something. how can I get to the other torque converter bolts.. put the starter on, but no alt, etc...I heard there is a tool to move the flexplate. Is that true and safe from chipping teeth??
 

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I'm sitting here scratching my head...........Why can't you turn the engine over by hand?.............Could you before you bolted up the trans?
Did the converter spin freely in the trans before you bolted it up to the motor. (getting back to not properly seated in the trans/trashing pump).................

I'd want to find out why the binding 'relationship' at this point. If that meant taking the motor back out to CYA, then it has to be done.........

What's causing the binding???????????????????

_________________ Okay, I guess I need more info here..........Why was the engine taken out in the first place?.......Turning it over by hand?........With a wrench?..... Are the spark plugs installed? Is all the valvetrain installed?
Unless the motor was really worn out, and you were one gnarly SOB, I highly doubt you could turn the motor over by hand via the dampner, etc.
Put a good 6 (as in SIX) point socket on the crank bolt, with the proper size extension so it protrudes out of the crank sprocket, and at least a foot and a half ratchet or preferably breaker bar, (I hate to use that name), and see if engine turns over then. (clockwise). If it doesn't budge, then again, take the motor out, (or at least loosen it from the trans), and see if it turns.......Preliminary diagnosis........



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: drag79stang on 4/1/02 8:41am ]</font>
 

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Ok, the tranny IS in neutral or park right? Been there once or twice, LOL.

If the motor won't turn with a big socket there is something wrong. Don't try and wind it over with the starter if it won't turn by hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
ok- the motor was worn and needed to be freshened. have new block, 351w heads. The spark plugs are in. Should I remove these?
The torque converter did turn freely when we repulled the engine out today. All mates up well, now. Should I oil prime it to help here? pull plugs? If I do use a breaker bar or torque hard at the damper, could I break something... What about squirting oil in the cylinders, with the plugs out?
Is it best to try this in park or neutral??
thanks
 

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I would make sure the motor will turn over first. You can pull the plugs to see if it makes it easier. If you break the crank bolt before the motor turns you have serious problems. Did it turn over on the stand with the heads on? After you get the motor to turn over by hand I would prime it before starting. Also don't be suprised if you totaled the transmission pump. Sounds like you put enough force on it to screw up the pump gears.
 

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Now I"m really starting to scratch my head.

I'm not trying to act like a ****.....Really.

Did the engine turn over OK before it was installed in the vehicle. Before the 'not going together' episode with the trans.?
Back to square root one.
Do not worry about priming/taking spark plugs out, before this little deal is talked out.

1. Did it turn over before the engine was installed.
2. If not, don't worry about anything else until you take the engine out and figure out why not. If it didn't, it should never have been installed in the first place........ (again, not trying to sound like a ****, but.........).

3. If the engine DID turn over ok before the trans episode, but does not now, ever since it has been attached to the trans, then there's something screwed in the trans.
It doesn't matter if it's in park/drive/reverse/whatever......the torque converter should still turn freely with the engine. The only thing that PARKS the trans(i.e. locking up the drivetrain), is the PARKING pawl, located in the rear of the trans.
Back to basics. Figure out what came first here........Either the engine turns over ok, and the trans is trashed , (I"m putting money on the pump if the engine turned over ok at first), or you've got a binding problem somewhere............
First things first...........Do not even begin to worry about priming the engine/whatever until the no turn over deal is solved!!!!!

And, yes, if you can't budge anything with a breaker bar on the crank bolt, something is definitley wrong.

Also, unless you've got like over 12 to 1 compression ratio, it should turn over fairly easy. (not that you won't have to grunt a bit with the spark plugs installed, but still).

Removing the spark plugs will be the quickest/easiest way to 'free up' compression from the engine.

sorry for ranting..............
 

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start removing the converter nuts and see as you go if it free up any. Then remove trans bolt and see if it free up also if not pull it all out and check trans front pump out.I think you broke the front pump.
Are you sure the motor was free when you started
 

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Discussion Starter #17
We found that by pulling themotor again and looking at the torque converter that it was in right the first time. had too much stress on the motor mounts, trans no way to meet all the way up. there was no crack in the bell housing like I'd thought. the torque converter spun freely and we're sure we got it in back correctly.
Yos, when we attached the flexplate to the motor, it was hard to turn, but it would turn. This is a very tight motor now. I believe with the plugs in now, manual fuel pump and connected to trans, its just too hard to turn. I'm going to remove the plugs and see if it will turn then....Anything else to remove or lube??
I'll let you know how it goes. Cant do this until tonight, I have a day job that pays for all this !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ok- removed the spark plugs, no help. still binding. Loosened the bell housing bolts about 1/4 the way and the crank turns. You can hear the flywheel hitting something. got to be either the side of the bellhousing or the engine plate. when I went to bolt up the starter yesterday, the starter holes were off by 1/4 inch. all bolts and the two dowels were in the plate, but it must hav been cocked just a little. since this surrounds the center of the flywheel. could this be the reason or what the flywheel is hitting...fyi... have the motor brackets and motor mount (ear type) set up. it was hell to get them lined up!!!!! So, since I dont want to pull this engine a 3rd time????any suggestions??
 

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Have you by chance got the wrong block plate? Sounds like it if you starter holes don't line up correctly. Have you by chance warped the flywheel?

But, this shouldn't prevent you from bolting the two together.

Rotate the flywheel so that a converter hole lines up with a michined area of the block. Measure the distance between the TC face of the flywheel and the block. Now, with the tc installed, lay a straight edge across the tranny bellhousing and measure the distance the stud face of the tc to the bellhousing side of the straight edge. If this measurement isn't more than the first measurement, then you tc isn't installed correctly.
 

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This is a simple thing that I did wrong once upon a time: The flexplate has 2 larger holes in it for the TC drain plugs. The TC will go in any way you line up the bolts, but if you haven't chosen the proper alignment so that the TC drain bolts go through the flexplate holes, you will bend up your flexplate and it will bind against the bellhousing, the block plate, or something else.

Hope this made sense. BTW, I can turn over my 10:1 408W by hand with a 12" Craftsman socket driver. It's tight, but about 50-60 ft-lb will <U>slowly</U> make the crank turn. You can hear the hissing of escaping pressure as the crank turns. You need to verify that the motor turns freely when disconnected from the trans. IF not, your problem is internal to the engine.
 
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