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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 1964 Falcon two door hard top project car and I need help with a firing order issue. The engine is a 351W with 351W heads and intake manifold. I bought the car a few months ago and I have finally found time to begin the resto project. The engine was running only at high RPMs, but not great so I decided the first place to start was the points, condenser, distributor cap, rotor button, coil, plug wires and plugs. I changed the plugs one by one and the plug wires one by one and halfway through I realized the firing order relative to the distributor cap was not the same. I got frustrated and took all the wires off (bad idea) and wired up according to the stock intake manifold firing order of 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. I changed the oil and filter and attempted to fire up. The carb backfiring and shot smoke through carb. I researched the cleveland firing order and found this: 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 and the car fired up. I still had the low RPM sputter and this is more that likely the carb (Holley 4777) needing work. I would like to get a cam and intake, but the prob with the cam is that the cam that is in the motor has the cleveland firing order. Does this mean I have a cleveland cam and crank? Any help would be appreciated. THANKS!
 

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What is the history of the engine? It helps to know where you're starting from before making any assumptions or conclusions.

David
 

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NO NO NO NO NO..... :(

Cleveland NOTHING will fit in nor ON a Windsor...

You got carb and vacuum issues, firing order is a Cam thing 302 versus 351. If you got it right according to the cam events just fix the vacuum leaks and adjust the carb.

I seriously doubt that you are even real. This site's been plagued with one post threads all month...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am in fact real. I am not sure about the history of this engine. What about the crank? So this is definitly a 351W crank? I am ordering the carb kit right now and I have a friend who is a holley specialist. I plan on a victor jr. intake manifold and a cam. any recommendations on the cam (Brand?specifics?) for street and light strip? Again, thanks for the help!
 

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I am in fact real. I am not sure about the history of this engine. What about the crank? So this is definitly a 351W crank? I am ordering the carb kit right now and I have a friend who is a holley specialist. I plan on a victor jr. intake manifold and a cam. any recommendations on the cam (Brand?specifics?) for street and light strip? Again, thanks for the help!
We need more info about the engine. Stock? What heads? Are you changing them as well? What exhaust specs? Tranny? Info is good, as just adding a Victor Jr. and a cam to a stock engine will gain you just about nothing on the street - or worse. As has been said by many on this forum, everything together is a package and needs to be planned as one to get the best results for the particular application. For example, a Vic Jr. will actually give you less performance as one of few changes to a stock engine on the street. Wrong kind of manifold for the current parts combo and intended use.

Spill your guts with everything you know about the car and we will try to help you get a handle on the whats, whys, and hows.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The car is a 64 falcon. The car came originally with a 260 with auto tranny. The current motor, how I got the car, is a 351 W block (verified) with 351W heads, and stock windsor cast iron intake manifold. The carb is a holley 4777 650cfm. That is all i know about the engine. There are headers, but they look homemade. Not sure about the bore or the crank. Thanks.
 

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which 351 head do you have?

what transmission?(what converter?) what gear? how do you plan to use the engine?
 

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Cool! Glad you're here for real and not spam.

The Cleveland crank will NOT fit so there's no worries about having Cleveland stuff on your Windsor.

Often when a motor will not run unless at Higher rpm's it's timing is retarded and needs the mechanical advance run up so it will run half decently.

Other time's it's a Vacuum issue... Other times a Carb issue


Verify your IDLE timing, verify it with NO vacuum going to the distributor.

Check your points for cleanliness and proper gap and dwell.

Go from there to make it run good. Then post your performance questions for the "other guy's" to help with :) :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
What about the crank? Would the crank not have anything to do with the proper firing order? I planned on putting in a cam. Is this alright with the same crank?
 

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I say you should pull the heads. Measure bore, stroke, ID the heads and CC them to make sure you know how big the combustion chambers are, etc. Know your motor in and out.

I wouldnt go Vic Jr intake if most of your driving is gonna be street. Not very good for low RPM driving.

What rear end and gears you packing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have ordered my carb rebuild kit and have decided to get the engine running smooth before adding any mods. I have decided to go the Edelbrock performer series intake manifold and cam.
 

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The 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order is the standard 351W setup and also used on later 5.0 engines. 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 is the firing order for early 260/289/302 engines. You have it running with the 302 firing order which tells you that you have a 351W with a 302 cam. It's not a big deal.

Now check everything else that has been mensioned. Check base timing. Set it somewhere between 10 and 15. Check for vacuum leaks. Do all the basic tuning work before you decide that something is broken and needs to be changes.

BTW - The 351C main journals are 2.749" while the 351W is 3.0" so you cannot install a Cleveland crank in a stock 351W block. There are a few special aftermarket 351W block options that use a 2.749 journal. I'm sure you don't have one.
 

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not so good at answering questions huh? LOL

you can use either firing order, as stated, 1 is 351/5.0HO, the other is the old 260/289/302/lopo5.0; the crank is the same

when you do the intake, try to identify which heads you have and try to identify what block you have

good luck!
 

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You need to find Top Dead Center (TDC) to see if the timing gears and or the distributor was installed wrong. Set the engine to the TDC mark on the vibration damper to the timing cover pointer. Remove all spark plugs to make it easier to turn the crank w/a socket. Line up the marks. Now look at the dist rotor...is it at #1? If not, and its way off, then turn the engine again one rotation to line up the timing marks again. Is the rotor at #1 now? If "NO" for each time, remove the both valve covers to physically SEE where the rocker arms are at (moving). In either damper position, the rocker arms should be closed! (the cylinder is firing--or just finished) If not, then the timing gears may have been installed either retarded or advanced a few teeth or wrong. The firing order can also be physically seen when you turn the crank after establishing #1 /TDC. Hand crank from # 1 to the next firing cylinder--(watch either #5 or #3 firing order....) and watch the rocker arms either already opening or just starting to open. That will tell you which firing order you got. Are you sure you got a 351? Look at where the water pump mounts to the block. If there is NO gap between the water pump mounting to the top of the block mating surface (where the head gasket is laid)--it is a 260/289/302. If there is about an inch or so from the pump mounting to block to the cyl head, it is a 351W. No way will a 351C mount fit without alot of fabication-it's tight and the water outlet (thermostadt) is IN the block..casted in from thre factory..not a separate housing to intake manifold like the small block. This manual method of timing is more time comsuming but resolves what someone else has done to the engine before you. Like one of the guys said...KNOW YOUR ENGINE!!! Do some research & homework. Hope this helps. I remember reading that to avoid the mis-firing on #s 7 & 8 (in a 1/5/4/2/6/3/7/8 firing order) Ford changed the firing order to the one we've been talking about. Cams for the 351W could be changed to the old firing order by changing to the 1/5/4/2/6/3/7/8. Lastly, it could be your damper is old and have moved from its TDC position...the rubber vulcanizing is old and the outer part of the damper has moved off a few degrees.
 
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