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Discussion Starter #1
My 64 W/a 352FE with 57000 original miles has started smoking more and more. Sends a blue cloud(small) when pulling up to intersections and accellerating away from a stop. It's been getting worse, but it smokes while just idling as well. Did a compression test with the engine warm and the compression was between 119 and 132lbs on cylinders 1-8. My manual says suppossed to be between 160-200. Mechanic says time to rebuild the engine. Does it sound like bad valve guide seals or time to rebuild it.
 

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What he said. Even though you probably didnt want to hear that...

And I know you have the question/statement of "But it only has 57000 miles on it" which normally isnt enough mileage to warrant a re-build, but setting for as long as it has not being used is the demise of the rings. Just think maybe just a basic re-ring, bearings, gaskets and she'll be ready to go 100k miles with no major machine work....
 

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What he said. Even though you probably didnt want to hear that...

And I know you have the question/statement of "But it only has 57000 miles on it" which normally isnt enough mileage to warrant a re-build, but setting for as long as it has not being used is the demise of the rings. Just think maybe just a basic re-ring, bearings, gaskets and she'll be ready to go 100k miles with no major machine work....

yep.
 

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I would first ensure the PCV System is fully operational and then find a shop with a blow-by meter.

Valve seals are a given and can be done on the engine. Oil ring condition is unknown. A complete overhaul is not warranted at this stage. The mechanic wants to perform a fast and expensive fix.
 

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Pull the valve covers, it could have sludged up returns combined with bad valve seals.

It could need a rebuild, but it is as likely in an afternoon you could put a set of valve seals in and clean it up significantly
 

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Come on guy's you all know that 119 psi to 125 psi is a fairly weak engine.

It can run nicely of course, but it's still weak.
What compression reading is OK for a forty year old 352 2V in your opinion? FORD specs are... ?

125PSI is not all that bad. Did the poster perform a dry and wet test?

Why should he drop a huge amount of money into an overhaul when the most likely cause of the smoking is poor or no maintenance. A plug reading has not even been suggested yet.
 

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Why should he drop a huge amount of money into an overhaul when the most likely cause of the smoking is poor or no maintenance. A plug reading has not even been suggested yet.
Any even reading over 120 psi if even is a good reading to me, but that's not my point.

Mixed compression along with smoking has not very many causes...

And WHAT has happened to damn near every single person that bought an old car come here and asked questions, even with particularly GOOD running engines.
They pretty much all give us a week of questions and get their answers and make their car run nicely, then they take it out and rebuild the damn thing.

If you can point to TWO threads this year where that wasn't done I'll but you a cup of coffee!

So I saved you guy's about 2 weeks worth of telling this guy what to do, because we all know what he's going to to in the end of all that questioning. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I've had the valve covers off and the top end was extremely sludged up. The car has only had about 600 miles put on it since 1998. I've put 200 of that on in the last year or so. The compression test was just using a over the counter comp. tester screwed into the spark plug hole after the engine was at operating temp. Engine cranked over for 10 seconds to get the readings. Checked 6 of the 8 cylinders.
Repairs I've done recently was replace the timing chain as it was worn and had about 12 degrees of play in it. I'm positive about the mileage as the original owners kept all their service receipts since it was new.
 

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Yeah, throw a couple of that thousand dollars at a problem, it will fix any defects immediately. Reminds me of cluster bombs and/or carpet bombing.

Do as suggested. Drain the oil from the pan, clean the head surfaces with a solvent (allowing it to drain out of the pan drain plug), free drain holes and install a new set of umbrella seals. Service PCV System and verify operation.

It is also a good idea to disassemble rocker arm assemblies and clean.

Refill pan with a premium engine oil (hi-mileage oil), fire and monitor oil pressure with a quality mechanical gauge. Run for a few hundred miles and change oil/filter again and see what you have. Check for oil leaks that may be adding to smoking.

The sludge is from lack of service and/or the old tech engine oils of the period (also possible from engine operating too cool).
 

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You could do all that, and then when you find out I'm right, simply do as I suggested for LESS than $600 bucks if you do it at home. In fact you can do it for probably less than $400 if you're frugal.

I know FE's a little and yours is tired. NOT by any means dead, but tired. Yes even with only 50K it's tired because it's got 50K from back in the day when 50K way OVER the half life of the engine for your average driver.
1190 miles per YEAR on a car is BAD, it's BAD because the oil get's Dirty and the Car Rarely get's up to OP temp.

That motor you have 200 miles on and is sludgy and smoking will likely last another 30,000 miles just like it is, but it's never going to have any ass behind it nor economy in it.

Rings and a hone will give a lot of that back. Bearings are because it's OPEN to do the rings, so why not?
Block plugs because the damn car is 48 years old and the block plugs RUST from the edges inward, and the brass ones corrode form the outside in.
Seals because your crap is 48 years old and not going to last a lot longer.

my advice is there only to save you heartache... Kultulz advice is sound, but not for this engine that's only got 57K on it over 48 years....

My one example is Mrs AM PI, she has 260,000 miles on it since new. Rebuilt in 1986 just for schitts and giggles apparently because everything then looked as good as it does now at this exceptionally high mileage mark and it will beat the berjeezus out of your 57K mile car because it had oil changes, no sludge and got driven.

What's your plan of attack?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Done some checking and cost difference between pulling engine and reringing/bearings/valvejob etc and having engine completely rebuilt is about 500$ difference for the 352 or punching it out to a 390. About a $30 difference between the two (352/390). So I am leaning toward just having engine rebuilt to a 390, with a RV grind cam. I don't have the ability to do it at home anymore.
 

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blue smoke came when oil gets to combustion chambers, usually main cause is rotten valve guide seals.

My "ELLI" Edsel old engine was also producing blue smokes..
I took valve covers off.. what a nightmare there, full of gunk.
When engine idling, i watched that rocker lubrication looked like, gray moly grase coming there.. So, I took rockers, pushrods etc etc. off from car, cleaned everything, especially rocker shafts were full of gunk.
Valve seals were really hard & rotten, so I changed those too.

Then blue smoke was gone ! Fresh Oil was oiling valvetrain nicely,
but when I shut down engine, then black smoke was coming from vented oil cap, maybe for next 15 minutes... Then rotten rubber plug drop off to highway, and engine lost all it`s antifreeze..
I took engine to pieces, what a mess was all oil passages & inside oilpan... then found crack in block..
Finally I bought freshly reconditionded / 040 overbored short block, and recontioned those old heads..
 

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blue smoke came when oil gets to combustion chambers, usually main cause is rotten valve guide seals.

My "ELLI" Edsel old engine was also producing blue smokes..
I took valve covers off.. what a nightmare there, full of gunk.
When engine idling, i watched that rocker lubrication looked like, gray moly grase coming there.. So, I took rockers, pushrods etc etc. off from car, cleaned everything, especially rocker shafts were full of gunk.
Valve seals were really hard & rotten, so I changed those too.

Then blue smoke was gone ! Fresh Oil was oiling valvetrain nicely,
but when I shut down engine, then black smoke was coming from vented oil cap, maybe for next 15 minutes... Then rotten rubber plug drop off to highway, and engine lost all it`s antifreeze..
I took engine to pieces, what a mess was all oil passages & inside oilpan... then found crack in block..
Finally I bought freshly reconditionded / 040 overbored short block, and recontioned those old heads..
LOL pretty good story! After you got it all fixed with the new valve seals... BAM, lose a freeze plug on the highway. I lost one too, once, and man, that is a fast way to lose all your antifreeze.
 

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blue smoke came when oil gets to combustion chambers, usually main cause is rotten valve guide seals.

My "ELLI" Edsel old engine was also producing blue smokes..
I took valve covers off.. what a nightmare there, full of gunk.
When engine idling, i watched that rocker lubrication looked like, gray moly grase coming there.. So, I took rockers, pushrods etc etc. off from car, cleaned everything, especially rocker shafts were full of gunk.
Valve seals were really hard & rotten, so I changed those too.

Then blue smoke was gone ! Fresh Oil was oiling valvetrain nicely,
:confused:

Are you telling the board that you did not have to overhaul the engine to rid it of smoking?

GAWD don't let SPARKY read this or you may be exiled from here... :frown:
 

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Certainly nothing wrong with a fresh engine, especially if you build a 390

FWIW, I have a set of very low mile 410 + .030 pistons and rods too if shipping makes sense. Add a 400 dollar Eagle 428 crank and you get even bigger :)

However, still consider this.

- your FE was sludged up on top
- FE valve seals are marginally effective when new
- Your valve seals are probably hard at best, and probably gone
- Dirty returns cause the oil to flood the guides

If you clean the head and slap some valve seals in there, you may get a drivable engine in a Sat effort. Of course, depending on whether its ring or valve seal smoke, you may not too.

It's really up to you, but 50 dollars worth of parts and a day of labor would be worth it to me.

These valve seals can be pretty magical too

3/8" X .625"-.660", VALVE SEALS, VITON, FLEX BODY TYPE, BBC, FE FORD - Alex's Parts Sales
 
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