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Discussion Starter #1
I had my first bad day with my car. I jumped on it off the line in 1st and 2nd and then the weird engine noises began. I shut it off and coasted to the side of the road. A little smoke from under the hood and coolant everywhere.

It seems one of the fan blades came in contact with the radiator and put a hole in it.

When I put A/C on this engine, space was at a premium. I found the water pump on a 302 isn't the same as a water pump on a 289. The oem fan spacer was too long. I couldn't install the fan to the upper pulley. I used the thinnest spacer that allowed the fan to clear the crank pulley. It resulted in a 1/2 gap between the fan blades and the radiator. I thought it was too close. The only way I can get more clearance is to install a thinner radiator.

The current aluminum radiator is a 2 pass unit, 20 1/4 tall x 18 3/8 wide. The core is 2 3/8 inches thick. Is it possible that a thinner core with more passes would have the same cooling performance?

Is it normal for a fan to flex like this? (it's a 50+ year old Ford Oem 6 blade used for 289's with A/C.)

Thanks


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Discussion Starter #3
It is likely that the motor mounts have failed or are very soft and need replacement. Check transmission mount also.
Wow! That isn't the answer I was looking for. The engine/trans/mounts were all installed new in the last year and a half with a little over 1100 miles on it all.

I don't see any movement of the engine when I rev the engine in neutral. You have more experience and know how than I do so I will investigate this possibility. Thank you.
 

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Remove the fan completely and use an electric "puller" mounted on your new radiator..........you're welcome!!:wink2:
A manual fan can also eat 30+ horsepower... and that is NOT a joke.
Highly recommend an electric fan. Make sure it has a shroud that covers most of the radiator.

Good Luck!
 

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The only time I've ever had a problem with the fan and the radiator the motor mounts had come lose and allowed the motor to move forward a small amount.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Also bolt a fan on the water pump and check for bearing play by moving the blades side to side. I would find wear that way every 2-3 years on the race car when it was using a heavy clutch fan.

I'll do that. This is a great time to check these types of things. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A manual fan can also eat 30+ horsepower... and that is NOT a joke.
Highly recommend an electric fan. Make sure it has a shroud that covers most of the radiator.

Good Luck!

30 hp is a lot of hp. It seems this might be a good solution. There are a lot of options out there. Can you or someone make a recommendation of what I should get? Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The only time I've ever had a problem with the fan and the radiator the motor mounts had come lose and allowed the motor to move forward a small amount.

The first thing I noticed was the deep gouge. I agree with your assessment. Now, I need to figure out how to lift the engine and remove them.
 

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This is what I have on the mustang. It's a BEAST for its size! Not very thick, either... only about 3-1/4". Fits a 65-66 mustang radiator like a glove. Would also work just fine on yours. Be sure to use a relay and large wiring, as it draws a solid 20 amps of current.

If you choose something else, study the current draw. Some fans might be larger in diameter, but don't have nearly the power of the above unit. You'll also want to check thickness and shroud size. The Derale below will definitely keep the car cool.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16926

Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This is what I have on the mustang. It's a BEAST for its size! Not very thick, either... only about 3-1/4". Fits a 65-66 mustang radiator like a glove. Would also work just fine on yours. Be sure to use a relay and large wiring, as it draws a solid 20 amps of current.

If you choose something else, study the current draw. Some fans might be larger in diameter, but don't have nearly the power of the above unit. You'll also want to check thickness and shroud size. The Derale below will definitely keep the car cool.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16926

Good Luck

That looks like a good unit. Thanks for the recommendation. At 23 amps, it will make the alternator work full time, which will use some HP (not as much as the fan though).



I have 4 1/2 inches from the radiator frame to the end of the water pump shaft. My current radiator (at the core) is 2 3/8 inches thick (3 inches at the tank) so I'd need some more room unless I can get a thinner spacer. (I'll spend time taking some more measurements tomorrow)


Do you recall how thick your radiator is?



Thanks for the link,
 

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That looks like a good unit. Thanks for the recommendation. At 23 amps, it will make the alternator work full time, which will use some HP (not as much as the fan though).

I have 4 1/2 inches from the radiator frame to the end of the water pump shaft. My current radiator (at the core) is 2 3/8 inches thick (3 inches at the tank) so I'd need some more room unless I can get a thinner spacer. (I'll spend time taking some more measurements tomorrow)

Do you recall how thick your radiator is?

Thanks for the link,
My radiator is a 3-1/4" thick, dual core aluminum unit. Standard mustang width and height.

I only have around 3-3/4" or so from the radiator to the nub on the water pump. The Derale 16926 fan is only 3-1/4" thick, so it gives me about a half inch of clearance between the water pump and fan.

With the power and amp draw of this fan, I recommend using 10 gauge power wire, a relay, and very good, preferably soldered connections.

As for amp draw, I HIGHLY recommend the 3G alternator upgrade! These came on early 90's model Taurus, etc. They are EASILY adapted to older cars, and put out 130 amps... even at low rpm. I got one out of the boneyard back in the day for $30, and am still using it. Runs EVERYTHING... electric fan, water pump, fuel pump, headlights, etc... even at an idle without discharging. It's a wondrous piece of engineering. lol If you get one from the boneyard, it has a metric tightening bolt. You'll probably want to get that with it. Also, grabbing the wiring pigtail makes life easier as well.

p.s. It sounds like you have some bad measurements... Either that, or you are leaving the spacer in place while taking them. Remove the spacer off the front of the water pump before getting the tape measure out! :)

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
My radiator is a 3-1/4" thick, dual core aluminum unit. Standard mustang width and height.

I only have around 3-3/4" or so from the radiator to the nub on the water pump. The Derale 16926 fan is only 3-1/4" thick, so it gives me about a half inch of clearance between the water pump and fan.

With the power and amp draw of this fan, I recommend using 10 gauge power wire, a relay, and very good, preferably soldered connections.

As for amp draw, I HIGHLY recommend the 3G alternator upgrade! These came on early 90's model Taurus, etc. They are EASILY adapted to older cars, and put out 130 amps... even at low rpm. I got one out of the boneyard back in the day for $30, and am still using it. Runs EVERYTHING... electric fan, water pump, fuel pump, headlights, etc... even at an idle without discharging. It's a wondrous piece of engineering. lol If you get one from the boneyard, it has a metric tightening bolt. You'll probably want to get that with it. Also, grabbing the wiring pigtail makes life easier as well.

p.s. It sounds like you have some bad measurements... Either that, or you are leaving the spacer in place while taking them. Remove the spacer off the front of the water pump before getting the tape measure out! :)

Good Luck!

I wish I had that much clearance in front of the engine. My car is a 65 Merc Comet/cyclone (original engine was a 289) but has a bored out 302 in it now. Could Mustangs might have a longer engine bay?

You are correct regarding the spacer. I needed to install a full 3/16 spacer to get the pulleys to align properly. I took my measurement from the end of the water pump shaft (farthest point forward) to a straightedge I had taped to the radiator frame.

I think a higher amp alternator would be a good choice with an electric fan. I appreciate the specific model recommendation. Thanks

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I wish I had that much clearance in front of the engine. My car is a 65 Merc Comet/cyclone (original engine was a 289) but has a bored out 302 in it now. Could Mustangs might have a longer engine bay?

You are correct regarding the spacer. I needed to install a full 3/16 spacer to get the pulleys to align properly. I took my measurement from the end of the water pump shaft (farthest point forward) to a straightedge I had taped to the radiator frame.

I think a higher amp alternator would be a good choice with an electric fan. I appreciate the specific model recommendation. Thanks
How about taking a picture of your radiator/fan area. There SHOULD be plenty of room for a 3-1/4" thick electric fan between the radiator and water pump.

In stock form, the water pump has an aluminum spacer in front of it that the fan attaches to. The spacer is usually a couple inches thick, then the fan, bolts... and some clearance between the fan and the radiator. You could gain 3/8" by shortening the nub on the water pump. You just need enough to center the water pump pulley.
 

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How about taking a picture of your radiator/fan area. There SHOULD be plenty of room for a 3-1/4" thick electric fan between the radiator and water pump.

In stock form, the water pump has an aluminum spacer in front of it that the fan attaches to. The spacer is usually a couple inches thick, then the fan, bolts... and some clearance between the fan and the radiator. You could gain 3/8" by shortening the nub on the water pump. You just need enough to center the water pump pulley.

There is a spacer between the block and water pump. It's 2 1/8 inches thick. The water pump on this engine has a longer working length than the water pump on my stock 289. It's a high flow pump. The difference is 7/16. I asked BP Engines if I could swap this out but they advised against it. An additional 7/16 would help a lot but I don't want to lose the high flow capacity and don't want to do anything that might void my warranty. Thanks for your help. I appreciate it.
 

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With the radiator installed, how many inches of room is there between the nub on the water pump and the radiator? It does look tight in there. (I'm assuming what we are seeing up front, is the AC condenser.)

The spacer you referring to, is the timing chain cover. :)
 

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With the radiator installed, how many inches of room is there between the nub on the water pump and the radiator? It does look tight in there. (I'm assuming what we are seeing up front, is the AC condenser.)

The spacer you referring to, is the timing chain cover. :)

I'm laughing at myself now. I'm showing my rookie status with that description.

The radiator core is 2 3/8 so the space should have been 2 1/8. The gap between the blade and radiator was about 3/8. I could barely get the belt to squeeze by the fan and installing the bolts for the fan was difficult. Skinned knuckles. The only way I got it installed was with a ratcheting wrench.



Yes, that is the A/C condenser.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I wanted to update the board. I got the job done. It wasn't too hard but getting the right radiator was a challenge. I bought a Champion Radiator (2 1/4 thick) radiator first. I could not install any fan since they center the radiator on the bracket. It had less room than I had before.

I swapped it for a EC259 which is only 1.75 inches thick. This one had the same clearance problem as the first one. It's how champion makes their radiators. I returned it and was told it needed a 'bracket job' to make a custom flange. That ended up resulting in a 2+ week delay. That radiator arrived and found the width of the flange was 1/2 short on both sides (did not fit the mounting holes). This delay was 1.5 weeks.

I got it home, measured, drilled the holes and got it installed. There were cob webs under the car it sat so long. I took it for a test drive during rush hour here in Ca. Temp was just under 170 until I got in a gridlock caused by a broken traffic signal. The temp creep-ed up to just under 190 after 20 minutes of idling.

I ended up using the Scott Drake 17 inch 6 blade fan. There wasn't enough room to install an electric fan kit. I might give the flex a lite fan a try too, since I have it here.

This Scott drake fan makes a lot of noise, starting at around 2900 rpms. It get's much louder around the 3500+ range. I thought it was coming from the transmission at first. I don't like this excess noise at all. I called SD tech support. They said it's how it is.

In my opinion, SD should put a disclaimer on the part letting everyone know how loud it'll be.

Question of the day? Is there any way to lower the noise? The factory Ford 17 inch 6 blade fan I used to have made no extra noise at all. the tips were set up differently. I wonder if this is where the noise is coming from?

Thanks for all the help the forum members gave me.
 
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