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I believe the answer is no. Every once in a while someone will claim to have a factory FE-C4, I think from truck applications believe it or not. I maintain that there were none.

JMO,

paulie
 

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No. The closest bell to the FE is for a 223 flathead, but I don't believe it will bolt up to an FE motor.

The 223 is the rarest bell Ford ever made for the C4. They are currently worth about $650 EACH. I have seen and owned ONE in my life out of over 15,000 C4s I have owned. However, I do know someone who has one for sale.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You are probably correct. I've never seen one but that does not mean Ford didn't cross the two at some point.
I've heard people say they have C4s in trucks but in reality they are Cruise-o-matics or FMXs.

Aftermarket then.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
No. The closest bell to the FE is for a 223 flathead, but I don't believe it will bolt up to an FE motor.

The 223 is the rarest bell Ford ever made for the C4. They are currently worth about $650 EACH. I have seen and owned ONE in my life out of over 15,000 C4s I have owned. However, I do know someone who has one for sale.
15,000 C4s.. what the? I thought the 223 was a in line six. I'm familier with the 239 flatty.
 

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15,000 C4s.. what the? I thought the 223 was a in line six. I'm familier with the 239 flatty.
The 223 is an inline six.

Yes, over 15,000 C4s over a period of 25 years. For a several years I was getting over 200 a month from local wrecking yards and still get 10 or so per month even though they are now getting very rare.

For around 5 years there was a local Pinto only wrecking yard here. I got around 2,000 or so from that yard only. When you add in the other Ford only yards here in the last 25 years, the numbers stack up fast. Right now I have enough major parts for around 100 C4s in stock and have sold enough major parts this year to build around 50 more.

C4s did come in trucks, just not behind FE motors.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The Ford 223 I'm familier with is a OHV.

I was not aware of a all Pinto wrecking yard in that area, I got carried away with a SVO/T-5/9" powered Pinto from about 90-93. A Pinto yard may have been a good source. (I wish I still owed that car)

Anyway, It looks as though the only options for mating a C4 to an FE will be JW or a $$$ Quicktime bellhousing.
 

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That is one of the 1965 castings for the early pan fill C4s. C5TZ - is a 1965 light truck or van engineering number. One of the few that I have seen for the FE engine series. Ford used them with the early FE engines in light trucks in Canada and Mexico as far as I know. I don't believe that many were used in this country (USA). I believe (working from memory here) it had something to do with the licensing clause on the Borg Warner inspired Cast Iron Cruis-o-matic no being sold outside the USA.
If it was a JPT part it wouldn't have the Ford part number - it would have their brand on it. The JPT parts are billet - not cast and CNC machined - the one shown is obviously cast.
 

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That's odd, a C5_ _ casting to suit a 70+ case ????
Fits 1965-1979 C4 pan-fill cases and 1982-1986 pan-fill cases. In other words, fits all pan-fill cases, not just those after 1969.

check this bell,has C5TZ number cast in. was told it came from Canadian built bread truck fleet with 330 fe built to run on propane
What is the compete casting number?

C5TZ is a service number and should not be cast into the bell. Since this is a part for an automatic transmission, the engineering number cast in the bell should have a P where the Z is. That said, Ford did occasionally screw up and put the wrong type of numbers on their parts.
 

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Ford often used the Z in the fourth position for performance or other "short run" parts.
 

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Look familiar????



I cut the bell off a C-6 case and weld a plate on to make a C-4 housing.
JPT did the same thing many years ago and by concocting a story about Canadian FE's he got the bellhousing past NHRA tech so Stock and Super Stock racers could use an FE.

More power to him as far as I am concerned but people keep rolling out that pic to prove Ford made one. Look at the lower left bellhousing bolt, way too tight to the casting for a production type part. I have to use a special bolt there to clear.
 

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If it was a JPT part it wouldn't have the Ford part number - it would have their brand on it. The JPT parts are billet - not cast and CNC machined - the one shown is obviously cast.
This info is wrong. JPT bells are cast. They look very much like they would have come from the factory. My buddy bought one from JPT and it looks like it could have come from Ford. I think it even has a part number on it. It does not have JPT cast into it either. Jim had these made specifically to run in NHRA stock and superstock cometition and it had to match a ford factory part. There is nothing billet about it.
 

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I could be wrong but the first one of these bellhousings I ever saw was in the mid to late seventies. How long has JPT been making them?
There was no welding done on the one I saw.
 

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The NHRA has only allowed the JPT C4 bell for a few years. Probably within the last five.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
This is all very interesting. If I were able find one I imagine it would cost as much as the JW bell. I'm sold on C4s and want to run one in an FE powered Galaxie.

Thanks guys I've learned something, maybe the guy that claimed he's had 15,000 C4s earlier in this thread has also.
 

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This is all very interesting. If I were able find one I imagine it would cost as much as the JW bell. I'm sold on C4s and want to run one in an FE powered Galaxie.

Thanks guys I've learned something, maybe the guy that claimed he's had 15,000 C4s earlier in this thread has also.
I have learned something, but not sure how valuable that something is at the moment. Without knowing the actual casting number on the bell or actually being able to physically examine the bell, I am forced to leave its OEM origin in the realm of "possible" but not "positive."

As for the "claim", it is the best guess I could come up with since I did not count the thousands of C4s I have bought and scrapped over the last 25 years at this location and the 3 years prior at a different location.

What I do know is that in the busiest year that I ever had scrapping transmissions, I sold OVER 250,000 pounds of scrap transmission aluminum to CalBag here in Portland. I also sold over 350 tons (almost 3/4 of a million pounds) of scrap transmission iron that same year to Schnitzer Steel. That works out to about 8,200 transmissions of which there would have been about 1200 C4s.

Even as recently as 2006 I was still buying over 3000 transmissions per year. Of course, the C4 count by then was way down, probably around 300 or so units for the year. And in 2006 I was no longer scrapping C4s for aluminum except for the rust buckets.

Nowadays I am buying only around 1000 transmissions per year and I doubt that I bought 100 C4 jewels in the last year even though I hardly ever buy from late-model yards (yards with cars under 15 years old).
 

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I could be wrong but the first one of these bellhousings I ever saw was in the mid to late seventies. How long has JPT been making them?
There was no welding done on the one I saw.
There is a story floating around about those bellhousings and how NHRA finally twigged that they were a fabricated unit.
FE powered racecar had the rear of the intake leaking for too long and the oil was running over the bellhousing and soaking into it. Tech guy is taking a look and pulls the "bodyfiller" off the bellhousing that was hiding the welds. Too late to turn the clock back so now a fabbed bellhousing with visible welds is fine pass tech.

I talked to JPT in the late 80's and he had been building them for quite a while then. His were too rich for my blood so I made my own.
 
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