[lewiszman]

Hi everyone, I'm new the forums. I joined because I decided to do a rebuild project on a 351W.

I am completely new to engine rebuilding, but have done extensive reading, and watch a few rebuild tutorials, like one produced by BoxWrench.

I will be picking up a 351 block this weekend from a local auto shop for $250 - it's been disassembled and cleaned, includes stock heads, cam, pistons/rods, and crank. The seller says its a Windsor from a Ford LTD, running when pulled.

I'll be keeping the heads, but replacing all other parts and stroking it to 408, with a 4" stroke and 0.030 overbore.

The kit that I've decided on is EagleRod's assembly #16123 ($1281.25):

Pistons: Mahle forged 4032 -26.0cc dish pistons, with pin height of 1.245

Crank: 4.00" stroke standard cast steel, up to 550HP; 2.10" rod journals; 1.90" rod journal width; 3.00" main journals; weighing 54lbs

Rods: 6.250" I-Beam; 3/8" ARP 8740 fasteners; bushed pin fit, up to 500HP; 2.10" rod journal; 2.2250" housing bore; 0.927" pin size; 0.0940" big end width; 1.0600" pin end width; weighing 615g

Bearings: Clevite CB663P rod bearings; Clevite MS1432P main bearings

On a 61cc head, it produces a 9.68:1 CR, but this may be irrelevant because I'm not 100% sure on the volume of the stock heads that are coming with the block.

Cam: I haven't researched too much into this component yet, or cylinder head components, so any and all suggestions or advice is welcomed!

Valvetrain: I haven't research too much into this either... I figured I'd cross that bridge when I come to it. Suggestions?

My goal horsepower is between 400 to 500HP, will be primarily a street car. Is this realistic with the EagleRod kit mentioned above?

What kind of specs would I need to aim for on the Cam and Head to reach these goals?

I look forward to seeking advice from all the experts and enthusiasts here, and any advice on my build thus far is welcomed!

Thanks!

 

[montybrown]

Buy a nice set of heads, don't half ass it...strong bottom end= needs a good top end.....you will choke the thing with stock heads.....

 

[lewiszman]

Buy a nice set of heads, don't half ass it...strong bottom end= needs a good top end.....you will choke the thing with stock heads.....

Thanks montybrown, would you say that my short block components look decently strong? And what attributes does a 'good top end' have? Any specifics as to brands or specs that I should look out for?

 

[mustangboy]

I have no personal experience with Eagle but have heard some complaints of quality issues with some of their stuff....I have been pretty happy with my Scat rotating assembly..It did have an undersized oil journal on the crank which caused an oil leak but that should have been checked by my machine shop during assembly..If you get the connecting rods with capscrews instead of bolts it helps out with block and camshaft clearance...Otherwise you may have to do some grinding on the block to get everything to clear..You might also want to get some pistons with a little more compression if you decide to run aluminium heads..I would look for something around 10 or 10.5:1 with a 60cc head...Like Monty said the stock heads will absolutely choke a 408 cubic inch engine..They were barely adequate on a stock 289...

 

[montybrown]

I have a scat 331 stroker rotating ass. in my engine, everything came out dead nuts on with no issues, I would check into some AFR (air flow research) heads....I am using trick flow 170 twisted wedge heads, but there are better heads out there that flow much better.....I have a buddy that runs Eagle stuff in a dragster in a small block chubby....no issues

 

[PSIG]

If you haven't finished the deal - stop - and consider what he is selling you. You do not need anything he has except the block. Those are generally available for $100-150 at machine shops. What you will need are all the brackets for accessories, timing cover, and possibly oil pan for the 351W. Maybe you can modify your deal if you haven't committed. Get what you need and not what you don't.

David

 

[67coup]

I'm running AFR 205 heads on my 408w and I really like them. They are 58cc chamberd heads and that gives me a CR of about 10.4 to 1 compression with 22 cc dish pistons. I also have a Holley 950 cfm HP carb that seems to really match my combo. My cam is a custom roller that is around 236/242 and lift .575. It is a street car that's fun to drive and can run mid 11's at the track. I based most of the combo on info that I got on this site. Good luck.

 

[Bradley66]

I recently built a 395w stroker motor. I was tight on money so I pulled some gt 40 heads off an explorer which I was told to be the best flowing stocks heads and I got them ported, polished and a 3 angle valve job. Motor runs very strong but just not entirely what I feel like I want. Invest in some afr 205s and you will be very happy. (hopefully when i have some cash thats what ill be doing) Just make sure your car can handle all the power and will grab traction or it isnt worth it.

 

[lewiszman]

Wow thanks for all the great response and info guys.

If you haven't finished the deal - stop - and consider what he is selling you. You do not need anything he has except the block. Those are generally available for $100-150 at machine shops. What you will need are all the brackets for accessories, timing cover, and possibly oil pan for the 351W. Maybe you can modify your deal if you haven't committed. Get what you need and not what you don't.

David

I managed to rework this deal with the seller. I only got the main block and main caps for $175. It didn't come with ANY brackets for accessories, timing cover, or oil pan though - will this be a big issue moving forward? I figured I'd be able to pick them up used and individually later...

I'm running AFR 205 heads on my 408w and I really like them. They are 58cc chamberd heads and that gives me a CR of about 10.4 to 1 compression with 22 cc dish pistons. I also have a Holley 950 cfm HP carb that seems to really match my combo. My cam is a custom roller that is around 236/242 and lift .575. It is a street car that's fun to drive and can run mid 11's at the track. I based most of the combo on info that I got on this site. Good luck.

So I've been recommended Trick Flow or AFR heads... Other than chamber volume... what other specs are used to measure flow in heads? Any specific range of said specs that I should shop for?

And regarding your cam specs... I'm a total noob and don't understand the numbers (236/242; lift, etc.)... Could someone explain or direct me to a good article to educate myself?


On a side note:
There's plenty of rust on the bare block and I plan on getting it sandblasted to strip off the rust. I will also be hot tanking, magnaflux, boring at the machine shop.

Between hot tanking and sandblasting... which order should I do it. I was considering degreasing the block with a pressure washer at home, then sandblasting it, then hot tanking it to get the goodies out of the water/oil passages... Is this a good idea?

When sandblasting do I tape up the cylinders or will it be okay to blast since I will be boring it afterwards?

How long after blasting/machining will the cast iron block begin to show signs of rust again... and how can I prevent it? I've heard oiling... wrapping in a bag... No real consistency among answers I've read. You advice is appreciated!

Thanks

 

[lewiszman]

I answered my own camshaft questions with an article I found.

Great read. For your reference: Camshaft Choice - Camshaft Specifications - Guidelines - Hot Rod Magazine

 

[PSIG]

I managed to rework this deal with the seller. I only got the main block and main caps for $175. It didn't come with ANY brackets for accessories, timing cover, or oil pan though - will this be a big issue moving forward? I figured I'd be able to pick them up used and individually later...

No problem, as you can do that. It's just easier and cheaper to get them as 'toss-ins' to the deal if they are available and you can use them. Some factory brackets don't fall into the overall plan and aren't useful anyway, so no biggie, and timing covers are $25-50.
:tup:
David

 

[punkur67]

Buy a new timing cover. Most of them are all rotted out when u get them used.

 

[PSIG]

You should not need to sandblast it, nor want to. Most good shops will hot tank, which will remove all of the grease, rust and paint. Some shops use less chemical to get the grease, and then do a 'shake 'n bake' where they cook it in an oven and them shot blast it. It should come back to you looking like a newly cast block. Not only that, but sand, slag, glass beads and other media fragments can get stuck in the engine corners and crevices, only to loosen later and cause damage in your engine. Let them do it, but tell them you want it totally stripped so there is no confusion, as some builders just want it thoroughly degreased.

Decide when you are going to do your killer cleaning. Some strokers require clearancing on the block that will contaminate it with carbide and iron residue. I do a first cleaning for inspection and clearancing before having it tanked and final clean and machine.

When I get my blocks after machining, I wash them with hot soapy water and brushes inside and out. Rinse and repeat. Really scrub. The little stuff that is trapped in the fine bore honing marks is amazing. You should be able to rub the bores dry with paper towels with zero residue. When perfectly clean, put a few drops of engine oil on a fresh paper towel and rub the bores (cylinder and main) to protect them.

I am a detail painter. Some guys assemble the engine less the carb and distributor and spray bomb the whole thing. I paint the block separately after cleaning. There are tricks to fast and easy masking, but the easiest is to tape the places to avoid paint (holes, gasket surfaces, etc.), then trim the excess making tape with a plastic mallet and/or rat tail file. If you bang the corners where you want to trim the tape with the mallet, it's cut right through and you can peel it off. Stroking inside corners and edges with the file does the same. It's actually kind-of fun masking that way. After painting and allowing to fully dry, bag it. Anything will do, but BBQ grill covers and similar equipment covers are handy, cheap and easy. Keep your building area clean!

David

Masked black for that 'understated' look:

Here's a detail paint with a cast-iron engine paint and epoxy paint for the oil drain-back areas:

 

[pocnoxot]

Buy a new timing cover. In fact, I have no personal experience with Eagle but have heard some complaints of quality issues with some of their stuff....

 

[Mike Bremner]

Hi im not sure how the forum world works so im just going to ask my question here.

i just bought a 1976 F-150 it has a 351w with a Edelbrock carb im looking to upgrade it to a electronic coke carb and i also need the proper inline fuel pump im told i can go max 650cfm carb and max 5-9 psi pump leaning more towards the Holly carb any input would be awesome

 

[n2omike]

Hi im not sure how the forum world works so im just going to ask my question here.

i just bought a 1976 F-150 it has a 351w with a Edelbrock carb im looking to upgrade it to a electronic coke carb and i also need the proper inline fuel pump im told i can go max 650cfm carb and max 5-9 psi pump leaning more towards the Holly carb any input would be awesome

The Edelbrock is the better street carb. It's generally more reliable, and gets significantly better fuel mileage. Edelbrock also makes carbs with the electric choke. These carbs work just fine with the stock, mechanical fuel pump. Mechanical pumps are more reliable than electric, so unless you NEED higher volume... which you don't... stick with the stock pump.

Does it run fine right now... after it warms up?

Good Luck